7 ms·

Slow loads are an individual implementation problem as much as it is a Wordpress problem. Wordpress will happily give you more than enough rope to hang yourself

by STRML 14y ago

Slow loads are an individual implementation problem as much as it is a Wordpress problem. Wordpress will happily give you more than enough rope to hang yourself with (e.g. Recent Comments), but even slightly savvy engineers should be able to avoid the pitfalls and AJAX expensive queries when needed. I agree that Wordpress should have saner defaults but it is not impossible to build a fast site with it.

ck2 14y ago
I'm not talking about front-end, I mean back-end. WordPress is over 100 files of code 3mb size, loading on every page, BEFORE plugins. It's impossible to build an active, non-cached site with it. I have 100% dynamic php forums running side-by-side with wordpress and they are completely uncached - for WordPress that's impossible at the same load.
- agumonkey 14y ago
  I used the sociable plugin (like/tweet/+1 buttons). Out of extremism I tested under elinks, saw some weird empty ul/li hanging around, inspected the plugin config and then went into the code. The latest release at the time was barely beta code, large spans of deadcode, copy/pasted pages-long loops that were 90% similar. Wordpress plugin pages quote millions of download for this plugin. Who needs quality ?
  - tsewlliw 14y ago
    (100% totally non sarcastic here) This is what I love about PHP devs. Imagine how much effort it was to write that. The author may not have have the chops to refactor that into something elegant, but he wanted it done and was perfectly willing to just do it the hard way and FUCKING SHIP IT, warts and all. Its easy to laugh at code after the fact, but you can't argue that a ton of people aren't finding the author's work valuable.
    - agumonkey 14y ago
      Agreed, and my question was half sarcastic / half pragmatic. But I don't know where I stand on this issue. Answers lie somewhere in the middle, and to me, this case was quite out of balance.
    - FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
      I think there's a false logic present in arguing that "lots of people use it, so it's ok even if it's shit." Apply this same argument to one of several poorly coded plugins that have introduced basic security vulnerabilities and had widespread adoption. I think this is even worse when there's no commitment to improving it. I find it curious we don't necessarily aspire to quality; and I think we should. I'm not happy just FUCKING SHIPPING IT.
      - rhizome 14y ago
        Sure, but "working" is a perfectly reasonable lower standard.
        tripzilch 14y ago
        Allowing for introducing security vulnerabilities is not at all "reasonable", IMO. How are end-users supposed to judge whether they just blew an enormous hole in their site, by selecting a plugin from the repo?
        rhizome 14y ago
        Since there are always bugs, all code is an opportunity for security vulnerabilities. Users take their site security into their own hands whenever they have to trust others' code, as well as trusting their own coding skills (if applicable). Time to reflect upon a classic of the genre: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html There is an entire WP ecosystem of people having to judge whether they blew an enormous hole in their sites by selecting one of the zillions of plugins available, why is this one different?

by STRML 14y ago

ck2 14y ago

I'm not talking about front-end, I mean back-end. WordPress is over 100 files of code 3mb size, loading on every page, BEFORE plugins. It's impossible to build an active, non-cached site with it. I have 100% dynamic php forums running side-by-side with wordpress and they are completely uncached - for WordPress that's impossible at the same load.

agumonkey 14y ago
I used the sociable plugin (like/tweet/+1 buttons). Out of extremism I tested under elinks, saw some weird empty ul/li hanging around, inspected the plugin config and then went into the code. The latest release at the time was barely beta code, large spans of deadcode, copy/pasted pages-long loops that were 90% similar. Wordpress plugin pages quote millions of download for this plugin. Who needs quality ?
- tsewlliw 14y ago
  (100% totally non sarcastic here) This is what I love about PHP devs. Imagine how much effort it was to write that. The author may not have have the chops to refactor that into something elegant, but he wanted it done and was perfectly willing to just do it the hard way and FUCKING SHIP IT, warts and all. Its easy to laugh at code after the fact, but you can't argue that a ton of people aren't finding the author's work valuable.
  - agumonkey 14y ago
    Agreed, and my question was half sarcastic / half pragmatic. But I don't know where I stand on this issue. Answers lie somewhere in the middle, and to me, this case was quite out of balance.
  - FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
    I think there's a false logic present in arguing that "lots of people use it, so it's ok even if it's shit." Apply this same argument to one of several poorly coded plugins that have introduced basic security vulnerabilities and had widespread adoption. I think this is even worse when there's no commitment to improving it. I find it curious we don't necessarily aspire to quality; and I think we should. I'm not happy just FUCKING SHIPPING IT.
    - rhizome 14y ago
      Sure, but "working" is a perfectly reasonable lower standard.
      - tripzilch 14y ago
        Allowing for introducing security vulnerabilities is not at all "reasonable", IMO. How are end-users supposed to judge whether they just blew an enormous hole in their site, by selecting a plugin from the repo?
        rhizome 14y ago
        Since there are always bugs, all code is an opportunity for security vulnerabilities. Users take their site security into their own hands whenever they have to trust others' code, as well as trusting their own coding skills (if applicable). Time to reflect upon a classic of the genre: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html There is an entire WP ecosystem of people having to judge whether they blew an enormous hole in their sites by selecting one of the zillions of plugins available, why is this one different?