4 ms·

I'm a social democrat, I'm fine with subsidies in general, I just want them to be applied intelligently. Spending a lot of money to subsidize someone's lifestyl

I'm a social democrat, I'm fine with subsidies in general, I just want them to be applied intelligently. Spending a lot of money to subsidize someone's lifestyle that's intentionally inefficient isn't smart. I'm all for helping the poor, but we should do it in a way that gets us a lot of bang for the buck.

jasonwatkinspdx 7mo ago
Having grown up in rural Kansas and now being an urban tech worker, I think you have a derogatory and ignorant view on people who live rurally.
- TulliusCicero 7mo ago
  You're welcome to believe that, but if you provide only insults and no reasoning it's pretty hard to take you seriously. Especially when you threw out some lame strawman about Somalia. Surely you can do better than that?
raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
Yes all of the farmers should move to the cities.
- coryrc 7mo ago
  They could live in villages though, where services can be centralized for a few hundred people.
- TulliusCicero 7mo ago
  No, but many rural people could live in small towns.
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    So they live in small towns and commute to their farms?
  - shagie 7mo ago
    The 80 year old house on a woodlot that a teacher is living in should be closed so they can buy a more expensive one in town? This isn't (all) new construction of people deciding to cast off the shackles of urban living and shoveling sidewalks and deciding to move out into the more rural parts of the state... but rather people living in houses that are 50 or more years old that their parents passed on to them. These are houses that were built in the early to mid part of the previous century that had two wires running - one for power, one for phone. The idea that because you are not-farmer you should live in a city seems quite prescriptive. People are living in rural parts of the country not because of the convinces of urban living, but rather because that's where they can afford to buy an old house and even with the additional utility costs (buying propane, septic, well) it is still less expensive than trying to buy a new construction house in the suburbs.
wooger 7mo ago
They're not 'the poor' though. If you own a $20 million of land why is everyone rich and poor in the city paying a dollar to fund your faster internet?
- greedo 7mo ago
  "Own" is doing a lot of work here. Usually there's a long term mortgage on the land farmers "own."
- shagie 7mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_farm#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_farm#United_States Small family farms are defined as those with annual gross cash farm income (GCFI) of less than $350,000; in 2011, these accounted for 90 percent of all US farms. Because low net farm incomes tend to predominate on such farms, most farm families on small family farms are extremely dependent on off-farm income. Small family farms in which the principal operator was mostly employed off-farm accounted for 42 percent of all farms and 15 percent of total US farm area; median net farm income was $788. Retirement family farms were small farms accounting for 16 percent of all farms and 7 percent of total US farm area; median net farm income was $5,002. https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-household-well-being/farm-household-income-estimates https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-household-... Estimated median total income for farm households increased in 2024 relative to 2023. Median income from farming decreased while median off-farm income increased in 2024 relative to 2023. At the median, household income from farming was -$1,830 in 2024. Given the broad USDA definition of a farm (see glossary), many small farms are not profitable even in the best farm income years. Median off-farm income in 2024 was $86,900, while the median total household income was $102,748.

jasonwatkinspdx 7mo ago

Having grown up in rural Kansas and now being an urban tech worker, I think you have a derogatory and ignorant view on people who live rurally.

TulliusCicero 7mo ago
You're welcome to believe that, but if you provide only insults and no reasoning it's pretty hard to take you seriously. Especially when you threw out some lame strawman about Somalia. Surely you can do better than that?

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago

Yes all of the farmers should move to the cities.

coryrc 7mo ago
They could live in villages though, where services can be centralized for a few hundred people.
TulliusCicero 7mo ago
No, but many rural people could live in small towns.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  So they live in small towns and commute to their farms?
- shagie 7mo ago
  The 80 year old house on a woodlot that a teacher is living in should be closed so they can buy a more expensive one in town? This isn't (all) new construction of people deciding to cast off the shackles of urban living and shoveling sidewalks and deciding to move out into the more rural parts of the state... but rather people living in houses that are 50 or more years old that their parents passed on to them. These are houses that were built in the early to mid part of the previous century that had two wires running - one for power, one for phone. The idea that because you are not-farmer you should live in a city seems quite prescriptive. People are living in rural parts of the country not because of the convinces of urban living, but rather because that's where they can afford to buy an old house and even with the additional utility costs (buying propane, septic, well) it is still less expensive than trying to buy a new construction house in the suburbs.

wooger 7mo ago

They're not 'the poor' though. If you own a $20 million of land why is everyone rich and poor in the city paying a dollar to fund your faster internet?

greedo 7mo ago
"Own" is doing a lot of work here. Usually there's a long term mortgage on the land farmers "own."
shagie 7mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_farm#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_farm#United_States Small family farms are defined as those with annual gross cash farm income (GCFI) of less than $350,000; in 2011, these accounted for 90 percent of all US farms. Because low net farm incomes tend to predominate on such farms, most farm families on small family farms are extremely dependent on off-farm income. Small family farms in which the principal operator was mostly employed off-farm accounted for 42 percent of all farms and 15 percent of total US farm area; median net farm income was $788. Retirement family farms were small farms accounting for 16 percent of all farms and 7 percent of total US farm area; median net farm income was $5,002. https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-household-well-being/farm-household-income-estimates https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-household-... Estimated median total income for farm households increased in 2024 relative to 2023. Median income from farming decreased while median off-farm income increased in 2024 relative to 2023. At the median, household income from farming was -$1,830 in 2024. Given the broad USDA definition of a farm (see glossary), many small farms are not profitable even in the best farm income years. Median off-farm income in 2024 was $86,900, while the median total household income was $102,748.