4 ms·

"side loading", I know this term is the one used but I think should be pushed back against with just using the standard "installing"/"install". It makes the con

by layoric 7mo ago

"side loading", I know this term is the one used but I think should be pushed back against with just using the standard "installing"/"install". It makes the control point clearer and (should be) unsettling when you can't "install" software on hardware you own.

markovs_gun 7mo ago
Yeah I listened to a podcast with Corey Doctorow (inventor of the term "enshittification") and he made this point quite well, to the point where I have completely removed "side loading" from my vocabulary. It's installing software on the computer I own.
BiteCode_dev 7mo ago
It's a great point. As a geek I used to think those details don't matter, but it turns out language shapes society and how humans think way more than I understood. We need to catch up on this because the people who know how to use language for propagandizing don't have the best intentions in mind. But using the original term is not enough. We need to combat their word-twisting by upping them. We need a way to convey "their way of installing stuff by default is inferior and an attack on liberty". Something like: - direct install: installing as we always did - caged install: installing through a locked store. Maybe somebody better at marketing can find a good way to do this. In fact, we should have a whole site and community to organize together and shift the narrative on all nerdy things: formats, open web, DRM, patents, etc. We have been weak on these points for so long because we care much more about solving tech problems than selling them. But openness is being eaten away under our noses. Has been for years.
- shaky-carrousel 7mo ago
  Sideloading should be called installing, and installing from the store should be called jailloading.
  - BiteCode_dev 7mo ago
    Jailoading is quite catchy, although it does have a "Micro$oft" and "Microslop" feel. Like more an insult than a word made to be used daily.
  - vdvebjrc 7mo ago
    [dead]
Intermernet 7mo ago
Agree. I recommended Stremio to a friend on an iPhone and it turns out it has to be "side loaded". My response is "so you can't install it?"
- vdvebjrc 7mo ago
  [dead]
dec0dedab0de 7mo ago
I think sideloading is a fine term when it is a consumption device. No one buys a video game console expecting to be able to install anything they want. As a matter of fact, there is an argument that restricting what can be installed is a feature. By maintaining control of the hardware, they can eliminate entire classes of problems that someone might run into. That is to say, when you let your kid play on the switch, you don't want to have to troubleshoot how they got the thing borked from installing malware. That said, I do think words matter and I always point out that the reason these systems are locked down is because of Digital Restrictions Management. I also refuse to buy anything from Sony because they changed their mind about letting me install linux on the PS3. I just think side loading is good way to describe installing custom software on a non-general purpose computer, and that not every computer needs to be general purpose. It's significantly better than the previous terms of hacking, cheating, stealing, and voiding your warranty.
giobox 7mo ago
I tend to draw a distinction - side loading usually infers a supported but not mainstream way of installing applications - this xbox for example cannot side load without you paying a small fee to enable the developer mode, and the vast majority of software will be obtained via retail discs or the Xbox store. It's not a generic "install" mechanism native to the out of the box experience for the console - you have to do some extra work for this avenue to open. When I think of "install" I think of general purpose OSes which can install software from almost any source no questions asked, or use the native out of the box support for software installations. The similar distinction exists with android and iOS, and is probably why the term is popular in those communities too. If nothing else, the term sideload makes very clear on platforms with native appstores or locked down distribution channels (consoles, phones...) that the install did not come from the native channels. Installs from game discs or the xbox store are inherently different from developer mode software and using the same term "install" for both disguises this fact.

by layoric 7mo ago

markovs_gun 7mo ago

Yeah I listened to a podcast with Corey Doctorow (inventor of the term "enshittification") and he made this point quite well, to the point where I have completely removed "side loading" from my vocabulary. It's installing software on the computer I own.

BiteCode_dev 7mo ago

It's a great point. As a geek I used to think those details don't matter, but it turns out language shapes society and how humans think way more than I understood. We need to catch up on this because the people who know how to use language for propagandizing don't have the best intentions in mind. But using the original term is not enough. We need to combat their word-twisting by upping them. We need a way to convey "their way of installing stuff by default is inferior and an attack on liberty". Something like: - direct install: installing as we always did - caged install: installing through a locked store. Maybe somebody better at marketing can find a good way to do this. In fact, we should have a whole site and community to organize together and shift the narrative on all nerdy things: formats, open web, DRM, patents, etc. We have been weak on these points for so long because we care much more about solving tech problems than selling them. But openness is being eaten away under our noses. Has been for years.

shaky-carrousel 7mo ago
Sideloading should be called installing, and installing from the store should be called jailloading.
- BiteCode_dev 7mo ago
  Jailoading is quite catchy, although it does have a "Micro$oft" and "Microslop" feel. Like more an insult than a word made to be used daily.
- vdvebjrc 7mo ago
  [dead]

Intermernet 7mo ago

Agree. I recommended Stremio to a friend on an iPhone and it turns out it has to be "side loaded". My response is "so you can't install it?"

vdvebjrc 7mo ago
[dead]

dec0dedab0de 7mo ago

I think sideloading is a fine term when it is a consumption device. No one buys a video game console expecting to be able to install anything they want. As a matter of fact, there is an argument that restricting what can be installed is a feature. By maintaining control of the hardware, they can eliminate entire classes of problems that someone might run into. That is to say, when you let your kid play on the switch, you don't want to have to troubleshoot how they got the thing borked from installing malware. That said, I do think words matter and I always point out that the reason these systems are locked down is because of Digital Restrictions Management. I also refuse to buy anything from Sony because they changed their mind about letting me install linux on the PS3. I just think side loading is good way to describe installing custom software on a non-general purpose computer, and that not every computer needs to be general purpose. It's significantly better than the previous terms of hacking, cheating, stealing, and voiding your warranty.

giobox 7mo ago

I tend to draw a distinction - side loading usually infers a supported but not mainstream way of installing applications - this xbox for example cannot side load without you paying a small fee to enable the developer mode, and the vast majority of software will be obtained via retail discs or the Xbox store. It's not a generic "install" mechanism native to the out of the box experience for the console - you have to do some extra work for this avenue to open. When I think of "install" I think of general purpose OSes which can install software from almost any source no questions asked, or use the native out of the box support for software installations. The similar distinction exists with android and iOS, and is probably why the term is popular in those communities too. If nothing else, the term sideload makes very clear on platforms with native appstores or locked down distribution channels (consoles, phones...) that the install did not come from the native channels. Installs from game discs or the xbox store are inherently different from developer mode software and using the same term "install" for both disguises this fact.