4 ms·

This is a cool idea, but it’s not clear what problem it’s solving. Tumbleweed is already great

benrutter 7mo ago
I was trying to figure out the change as well - I've only used Tumbleweed through WSL before. Does it provide a desktop environment preinstalled or is it a 'bring-your-own' deal? (if not, that seems to be the big thing that Kalpa brings to the table?)
- 999900000999 7mo ago
  Tumbleweed comes with desktop environment options. You can select from a few. I guess you get the atomic system, but with Tumbleweed you get snapshot backups anyway. One of the main advantages of Tumbleweed is the extensive testing pipeline. I'm not sure how a derivative would be able to offer a similar experience
whalesalad 7mo ago
"I have a minor inconvenience -- I know, I'll create an entirely new distribution where 99.92% is identical to the base"
- amlib 7mo ago
  How else are you going to improve the linux gene pool? Breeding linux distros ain't gonna cut it :)
- ogogmad 7mo ago
  Being able to roll back updates/upgrades that go wrong, is not just fixing a minor inconvenience. There's also something about the critical part of the system being less mutable. Desktop Linux has been way too easy to break in the past.
  - awoimbee 7mo ago
    Tubleweed has snapshots and rollbacks too by default. But yeah immutable distros are good for beginners so they don't destroy their system!
  - whalesalad 7mo ago
    The OS this is based on, Tumbleweed, is what provides that capability. I do not think there is anything novel here.
    - lproven 7mo ago
      > I do not think there is anything novel here. Absolutely wrong. Tumbleweed is a conventional distro. You're root, you can do whatever you want, you have full R/W access to the entire FS, and updating is by installing lots and lots of packages into the live OS while it is running. Aeon and Kalpa are immutable: the root fs is largely R/O even to root, and you cannot install or update packages on the running system. To install packages into the OS itself you must reboot, and installation is transactional -- it can automatically undo changes that prevented a successful boot. Kalpa is the KDE desktop version of MicroOS.
      - debugnik 7mo ago
        > and installation is transactional Good explanation, but note that Tumbleweed can use transactional-update with btrfs snapshots like MicroOS. Updates are still applied live though.
        lproven 7mo ago
        Okay, fair enough!
mhurron 7mo ago
Kalpa is an immutable distro based on MicroOS with KDE as it's desktop environment. MicroOS and its derivatives are all based on Tumbleweed. MicroOS was intended to be used for container workloads. Aeon grew out of that with a GNOME desktop, Kalpa a KDE desktop. Because they were focused in a way Tumbleweed is not, they are a more opinionated distro. On the other hand, Tumbleweed is a rolling distro that wants to be all things for everyone.

I was trying to figure out the change as well - I've only used Tumbleweed through WSL before. Does it provide a desktop environment preinstalled or is it a 'bring-your-own' deal? (if not, that seems to be the big thing that Kalpa brings to the table?)

999900000999 7mo ago
Tumbleweed comes with desktop environment options. You can select from a few. I guess you get the atomic system, but with Tumbleweed you get snapshot backups anyway. One of the main advantages of Tumbleweed is the extensive testing pipeline. I'm not sure how a derivative would be able to offer a similar experience

whalesalad 7mo ago

"I have a minor inconvenience -- I know, I'll create an entirely new distribution where 99.92% is identical to the base"

amlib 7mo ago
How else are you going to improve the linux gene pool? Breeding linux distros ain't gonna cut it :)
ogogmad 7mo ago
Being able to roll back updates/upgrades that go wrong, is not just fixing a minor inconvenience. There's also something about the critical part of the system being less mutable. Desktop Linux has been way too easy to break in the past.
- awoimbee 7mo ago
  Tubleweed has snapshots and rollbacks too by default. But yeah immutable distros are good for beginners so they don't destroy their system!
- whalesalad 7mo ago
  The OS this is based on, Tumbleweed, is what provides that capability. I do not think there is anything novel here.
  - lproven 7mo ago
    > I do not think there is anything novel here. Absolutely wrong. Tumbleweed is a conventional distro. You're root, you can do whatever you want, you have full R/W access to the entire FS, and updating is by installing lots and lots of packages into the live OS while it is running. Aeon and Kalpa are immutable: the root fs is largely R/O even to root, and you cannot install or update packages on the running system. To install packages into the OS itself you must reboot, and installation is transactional -- it can automatically undo changes that prevented a successful boot. Kalpa is the KDE desktop version of MicroOS.
    - debugnik 7mo ago
      > and installation is transactional Good explanation, but note that Tumbleweed can use transactional-update with btrfs snapshots like MicroOS. Updates are still applied live though.
      - lproven 7mo ago
        Okay, fair enough!

mhurron 7mo ago

Kalpa is an immutable distro based on MicroOS with KDE as it's desktop environment. MicroOS and its derivatives are all based on Tumbleweed. MicroOS was intended to be used for container workloads. Aeon grew out of that with a GNOME desktop, Kalpa a KDE desktop. Because they were focused in a way Tumbleweed is not, they are a more opinionated distro. On the other hand, Tumbleweed is a rolling distro that wants to be all things for everyone.