5 ms·

> If I could afford to live 15 minutes from the office I 100% would go to an office. I live ~20 minutes away from my job and you eventually get tired of that,

> If I could afford to live 15 minutes from the office I 100% would go to an office. I live ~20 minutes away from my job and you eventually get tired of that, too. Car maintenance, bad weather, bad drivers, etc. grind you down little by little everyday.

graemep 7mo ago
20 mins walking or by public transport would be fine though? GP does not specify driving.
- vrganj 7mo ago
  I live 20 mins by public transport or by bike in an incredibly bike-friendly city. Sometimes I just want to be at home to do deep thinking without anyone bothering me. Sometimes the weather makes it so I don't leave the house. Just let me decide where I work from.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- Yodel0914 7mo ago
  I’m 20min by public transport and still much prefer my 3 days at home than my 2 in the office. I think the thing people miss about RTO is that management are more likely to be extroverted. They’re the kind of people who thrive on being surrounded by people. I don’t think RTO is as nefarious as people here make out - it’s just extroverts wanting to mold the workplace to for them. That makes them bad managers, but not necessarily bad people.
fhd2 7mo ago
What baffles me most about RTO is what it does to romantic partnerships. If both can find career advancing jobs in the same city, that's cool. But what if they can't? The options aren't great: 1. One of them takes a hit on their career for the benefit of the other. 2. Both move to an area with OK-ish jobs for both, sharing the sacrifice. 3. Both take optimal jobs wherever they are and move into a long distance relationship. With kids in the mix, it becomes even harder, you might want to be around family to have a support network etc. RTO mandates generally seem pretty tone deaf about this aspect.
- vrganj 7mo ago
  It's because there's a lot of overlap between people thinking "those damn lazy workers better get back to the office so they don't slack off" and people thinking "a woman's role is in the household, raising children and cooking". Regressive attitudes tend to not come alone.
  - pc86 7mo ago
    "RTO is sexist" is a hell of a take.
    - ryandrake 7mo ago
      OP never said that. They said the venn diagram of attitudes promoting RTO coincidentally seems to largely overlap the regressive "women should be homemakers" attitudes.
    - lux-lux-lux 7mo ago
      Why? The data supports it. Women were more likely to leave during RTO efforts than men. WFH being a massive boon for workers with childcare responsibilities or medical issues is widely recognized; there’s a reason why there was a baby boom during the pandemic. A lot of the backlash against WFH workers was blatantly sexist; remember all the rage against those “day in the life of a remote worker” type TikToks? Note how they got way, way more hate than the objectively worse ‘working’ several jobs or modern hustle culture scam stuff? I don’t think it’s the be-all end-all explanation, but the shoe fits.
      - pc86 7mo ago
        Women being more likely to leave than men because of a policy does not inherently make that policy sexist. You could say the same thing about a policy that requires police officers in full patrol kit be able to scale an 8' wall or drag a certain amount of weight a certain distance in a given time frame - that instituting that policy in a department that didn't have it previously would result in more women leaving than men doesn't make the policy sexist unless it's both actually unnecessary for the job and implementation with sexist intent. Those meme-level DITL and older hustle culture stuff are two completely different things, targeting different audiences, and using different methods, so it makes sense that people would have two different reactions to them, even if you think both of them are stupid? Are there any reports of someone moving their company from WFH to full RTO in order to get women writ large to leave their company? I think it's much more likely that capital owners just want their building full so they don't lose their investments, business owners and executives don't like WFH for various reasons including the extremely overblown risk of overemployment, managers on average want to micromanage and find it easier in-office, and there's no public health backstop to justify WFH like there was 5 years ago. Separately but related, I don't think there's anything wrong with a factory worker getting paid $18/hr watching someone spread 2 hours of work over 7 hours in the office with two catered meals plus snacks and making jokes about "email jobs" not being real. I probably watched all the DITL things that went truly viral and the comments were never any more sexist than any other viral video on the internet.
axus 7mo ago
I'm on a hybrid schedule, same "distance". With a balance of days between home and office, I no longer get tired of the commute. Commute "distance" is definitely measured in minutes and not kilometers.
helle253 7mo ago
there is a secret 3rd solution that alleviates most of these issues: mass transit
- ryandrake 7mo ago
  Mass Transit isn't the solution on its own. It needs to be Mass Transit PLUS people living around mass transit stops. Mass Transit will never, ever, ever work in rural areas where houses are 2-5 miles apart from each other. It would barely work in suburbs, and only certain kinds like bus transit. You're never going to get a subway to work in the suburbs. Mass Transit is great for cities though, we should be building more of it.
  - entropicdrifter 7mo ago
    Trolleys and Regional Rail work great in the Philadelphia suburbs. When the state actually gives SEPTA funding so they can keep their vehicles up to date and pay their workers fairly
stevekemp 7mo ago
I live ~30 minutes from the city center, and the office locations I've had for the past ten years or so. I enjoy sitting on the tram/bus, reading a book and getting into the "work time now" mindset. Having half an hour to relax, look at the scenery, the people, and so on, is always nice.
- mikkupikku 7mo ago
  Time to chill out and read was definitely my favorite part about commuting by train (SEPTA). Unfortunately it also ate a lot of my time, but it was time I could spend reading so I didn't really mind that too much. > getting into the "work time now" mindset This is actually the reason I never liked WFH. I don't want to be in the work mindset at home, it degrades my ability to relax at home.

graemep 7mo ago

20 mins walking or by public transport would be fine though? GP does not specify driving.

vrganj 7mo ago
I live 20 mins by public transport or by bike in an incredibly bike-friendly city. Sometimes I just want to be at home to do deep thinking without anyone bothering me. Sometimes the weather makes it so I don't leave the house. Just let me decide where I work from.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
Yodel0914 7mo ago
I’m 20min by public transport and still much prefer my 3 days at home than my 2 in the office. I think the thing people miss about RTO is that management are more likely to be extroverted. They’re the kind of people who thrive on being surrounded by people. I don’t think RTO is as nefarious as people here make out - it’s just extroverts wanting to mold the workplace to for them. That makes them bad managers, but not necessarily bad people.

fhd2 7mo ago

What baffles me most about RTO is what it does to romantic partnerships. If both can find career advancing jobs in the same city, that's cool. But what if they can't? The options aren't great: 1. One of them takes a hit on their career for the benefit of the other. 2. Both move to an area with OK-ish jobs for both, sharing the sacrifice. 3. Both take optimal jobs wherever they are and move into a long distance relationship. With kids in the mix, it becomes even harder, you might want to be around family to have a support network etc. RTO mandates generally seem pretty tone deaf about this aspect.

vrganj 7mo ago
It's because there's a lot of overlap between people thinking "those damn lazy workers better get back to the office so they don't slack off" and people thinking "a woman's role is in the household, raising children and cooking". Regressive attitudes tend to not come alone.
- pc86 7mo ago
  "RTO is sexist" is a hell of a take.
  - ryandrake 7mo ago
    OP never said that. They said the venn diagram of attitudes promoting RTO coincidentally seems to largely overlap the regressive "women should be homemakers" attitudes.
  - lux-lux-lux 7mo ago
    Why? The data supports it. Women were more likely to leave during RTO efforts than men. WFH being a massive boon for workers with childcare responsibilities or medical issues is widely recognized; there’s a reason why there was a baby boom during the pandemic. A lot of the backlash against WFH workers was blatantly sexist; remember all the rage against those “day in the life of a remote worker” type TikToks? Note how they got way, way more hate than the objectively worse ‘working’ several jobs or modern hustle culture scam stuff? I don’t think it’s the be-all end-all explanation, but the shoe fits.
    - pc86 7mo ago
      Women being more likely to leave than men because of a policy does not inherently make that policy sexist. You could say the same thing about a policy that requires police officers in full patrol kit be able to scale an 8' wall or drag a certain amount of weight a certain distance in a given time frame - that instituting that policy in a department that didn't have it previously would result in more women leaving than men doesn't make the policy sexist unless it's both actually unnecessary for the job and implementation with sexist intent. Those meme-level DITL and older hustle culture stuff are two completely different things, targeting different audiences, and using different methods, so it makes sense that people would have two different reactions to them, even if you think both of them are stupid? Are there any reports of someone moving their company from WFH to full RTO in order to get women writ large to leave their company? I think it's much more likely that capital owners just want their building full so they don't lose their investments, business owners and executives don't like WFH for various reasons including the extremely overblown risk of overemployment, managers on average want to micromanage and find it easier in-office, and there's no public health backstop to justify WFH like there was 5 years ago. Separately but related, I don't think there's anything wrong with a factory worker getting paid $18/hr watching someone spread 2 hours of work over 7 hours in the office with two catered meals plus snacks and making jokes about "email jobs" not being real. I probably watched all the DITL things that went truly viral and the comments were never any more sexist than any other viral video on the internet.

axus 7mo ago

I'm on a hybrid schedule, same "distance". With a balance of days between home and office, I no longer get tired of the commute. Commute "distance" is definitely measured in minutes and not kilometers.

helle253 7mo ago

there is a secret 3rd solution that alleviates most of these issues: mass transit

ryandrake 7mo ago
Mass Transit isn't the solution on its own. It needs to be Mass Transit PLUS people living around mass transit stops. Mass Transit will never, ever, ever work in rural areas where houses are 2-5 miles apart from each other. It would barely work in suburbs, and only certain kinds like bus transit. You're never going to get a subway to work in the suburbs. Mass Transit is great for cities though, we should be building more of it.
- entropicdrifter 7mo ago
  Trolleys and Regional Rail work great in the Philadelphia suburbs. When the state actually gives SEPTA funding so they can keep their vehicles up to date and pay their workers fairly

stevekemp 7mo ago

I live ~30 minutes from the city center, and the office locations I've had for the past ten years or so. I enjoy sitting on the tram/bus, reading a book and getting into the "work time now" mindset. Having half an hour to relax, look at the scenery, the people, and so on, is always nice.

mikkupikku 7mo ago
Time to chill out and read was definitely my favorite part about commuting by train (SEPTA). Unfortunately it also ate a lot of my time, but it was time I could spend reading so I didn't really mind that too much. > getting into the "work time now" mindset This is actually the reason I never liked WFH. I don't want to be in the work mindset at home, it degrades my ability to relax at home.