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You are exactly correct. As to why it’s unpopular, I believe it’s just that no one has given it a fair try. Once you have done it for at least 20 hours a week f

You are exactly correct. As to why it’s unpopular, I believe it’s just that no one has given it a fair try. Once you have done it for at least 20 hours a week for a few weeks you will understand that typing is not and has never been the bottleneck in programming. If you have not tried it then you cannot have an opinion.

palmotea 7mo ago
> You are exactly correct. As to why it’s unpopular, I believe it’s just that no one has given it a fair try. Once you have done it for at least 20 hours a week for a few weeks you will understand that typing is not and has never been the bottleneck in programming. If you have not tried it then you cannot have an opinion. I haven't tried pair programming except in very ad-hoc situations, but doing it all the time sounds utterly exhausting. You're taking programming, then layering on top of it a level of constant social interaction over it, and removing the autonomy to just zone out a bit when you need to (to manage stress). Basically, it sounds like turning programming into an all-day meeting. So I think it's probably unpopular because most software engineers don't have the personalty to enjoy or even tolerate that environment.
- sodapopcan 7mo ago
  Well as the person you are replying to said, it's hard to have an opinion when you haven't actually tried it. I don't find it like that at all. Also, it doesn't mean you get NO solo time. Pairs can decide to break up for a bit and of course sometimes people aren't in leaving your team with an odd number of people, so some _has_ to solo (though sometimes we'd triple!) But it's something you have to work at which is definitely part of the barrier. Otherwise, saying it sucks without giving it a real try is akin to saying, "I went for a run and didn't lose any weight so I feel that running is exhausting with no benefit."
  - palmotea 7mo ago
    > Well as the person you are replying to said, it's hard to have an opinion when you haven't actually tried it. I don't find it like that at all. I don't need to try pair programming because I know how that level of constant social interaction makes me feel. > Otherwise, saying it sucks without giving it a real try is akin to saying, "I went for a run and didn't lose any weight so I feel that running is exhausting with no benefit." No, what you're doing is sort of like if you're raving about the beach, and I say I don't like bright sun, and you insist I need to try the beach to have an opinion on if I like it or not.
    - sodapopcan 7mo ago
      I wouldn't call "work" social interaction but I get ya. It's my biggest pet peeve of this industry: it has a whole lot of people who just don't want to talk to anyone. It is what it is, though.
      - palmotea 7mo ago
        > I wouldn't call "work" social interaction but I get ya. IMHO, social interaction is anything where you interact with other people. > It's my biggest pet peeve of this industry: it has a whole lot of people who just don't want to talk to anyone. That's very black and white thinking. I like talking to other people, but too much of it is draining. Every day spending all-day or even a half-day working directly with someone else? No thanks.
        sodapopcan 7mo ago
        It's not black and white because that is my whole point: you have to push through the terribleness at the beginning to start feeling the benefits, and most people aren't willing to. I'm a _massive_ introvert myself, btw. But like, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
- genthree 7mo ago
  Yeah, I’d have a mental breakdown within weeks if I had to pair more than an hour a day, max (even that much, consistently, would probably harm my quality of life quite a bit—a little every now and then is no big deal, though). No exaggeration, it’d break me in ways that’d take a while to fix. [edit] I’m not even anti-social, but the feeling of being watched while working is extremely draining. An hour of that is like four hours without it.
- player1234 7mo ago
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sodapopcan 7mo ago
I agree. The main reason people give for not liking it is that they say _they_ find it exhausting. _Everyone_ finds it exhausting, at least at first. That mostly stops being the case after a while, though. It can still be tiring but it found it to be a good kind of tiring because we were getting so much done. The team I used to pair on worked incredibly quickly that we started doing 7 hour days and no one noticed (although eventually we came clean). I find it depressing and dystopian that people are now excited about having a robot pair.

palmotea 7mo ago

> You are exactly correct. As to why it’s unpopular, I believe it’s just that no one has given it a fair try. Once you have done it for at least 20 hours a week for a few weeks you will understand that typing is not and has never been the bottleneck in programming. If you have not tried it then you cannot have an opinion. I haven't tried pair programming except in very ad-hoc situations, but doing it all the time sounds utterly exhausting. You're taking programming, then layering on top of it a level of constant social interaction over it, and removing the autonomy to just zone out a bit when you need to (to manage stress). Basically, it sounds like turning programming into an all-day meeting. So I think it's probably unpopular because most software engineers don't have the personalty to enjoy or even tolerate that environment.

sodapopcan 7mo ago
Well as the person you are replying to said, it's hard to have an opinion when you haven't actually tried it. I don't find it like that at all. Also, it doesn't mean you get NO solo time. Pairs can decide to break up for a bit and of course sometimes people aren't in leaving your team with an odd number of people, so some _has_ to solo (though sometimes we'd triple!) But it's something you have to work at which is definitely part of the barrier. Otherwise, saying it sucks without giving it a real try is akin to saying, "I went for a run and didn't lose any weight so I feel that running is exhausting with no benefit."
- palmotea 7mo ago
  > Well as the person you are replying to said, it's hard to have an opinion when you haven't actually tried it. I don't find it like that at all. I don't need to try pair programming because I know how that level of constant social interaction makes me feel. > Otherwise, saying it sucks without giving it a real try is akin to saying, "I went for a run and didn't lose any weight so I feel that running is exhausting with no benefit." No, what you're doing is sort of like if you're raving about the beach, and I say I don't like bright sun, and you insist I need to try the beach to have an opinion on if I like it or not.
  - sodapopcan 7mo ago
    I wouldn't call "work" social interaction but I get ya. It's my biggest pet peeve of this industry: it has a whole lot of people who just don't want to talk to anyone. It is what it is, though.
    - palmotea 7mo ago
      > I wouldn't call "work" social interaction but I get ya. IMHO, social interaction is anything where you interact with other people. > It's my biggest pet peeve of this industry: it has a whole lot of people who just don't want to talk to anyone. That's very black and white thinking. I like talking to other people, but too much of it is draining. Every day spending all-day or even a half-day working directly with someone else? No thanks.
      - sodapopcan 7mo ago
        It's not black and white because that is my whole point: you have to push through the terribleness at the beginning to start feeling the benefits, and most people aren't willing to. I'm a _massive_ introvert myself, btw. But like, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
genthree 7mo ago
Yeah, I’d have a mental breakdown within weeks if I had to pair more than an hour a day, max (even that much, consistently, would probably harm my quality of life quite a bit—a little every now and then is no big deal, though). No exaggeration, it’d break me in ways that’d take a while to fix. [edit] I’m not even anti-social, but the feeling of being watched while working is extremely draining. An hour of that is like four hours without it.
player1234 7mo ago
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sodapopcan 7mo ago

I agree. The main reason people give for not liking it is that they say _they_ find it exhausting. _Everyone_ finds it exhausting, at least at first. That mostly stops being the case after a while, though. It can still be tiring but it found it to be a good kind of tiring because we were getting so much done. The team I used to pair on worked incredibly quickly that we started doing 7 hour days and no one noticed (although eventually we came clean). I find it depressing and dystopian that people are now excited about having a robot pair.