3 ms·

> It doesn’t matter how long you’re letting it run. If you aren’t reviewing the output, you have no way of knowing when it changes untested behavior. You’re fo

> It doesn’t matter how long you’re letting it run. If you aren’t reviewing the output, you have no way of knowing when it changes untested behavior. You’re focused on the output , I’m focused on the behavior. Thats the difference. Just like when I delegate a task to either another developer or another company like the random Salesforce integration or even a third party API I need to integrate with.

sarchertech 8mo ago
Unfortunately you are not equipped to observe and test all or even most of the behavior of a non-trivial system. And if you attempt to treat every module in your system like it’s untrusted 3rd party code you’ll run into severe complexity and size limits. No one codes large systems like that because it’s not possible. There are always escape hatches and entanglements.
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  Actual a little company you might have heard of called Amazon does… Jeff Bezos mandated it in 2002. https://konghq.com/blog/enterprise/api-mandate https://konghq.com/blog/enterprise/api-mandate AWS S3 by itself is made up of 200+ micro services
  - sarchertech 8mo ago
    Except that they don’t. The API mandate gets violated all the time. And no one at Amazon actually treats every other team as a 3rd party.
    - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
      Have you worked at Amazon? I am not saying they treat every other team as a third party. I am saying they treat the code itself as a black box with well defined interfaces. They aren’t reaching in to another services data store to retrieve information.
      - sarchertech 8mo ago
        How do you know someone is ex-Amazon ? Don’t worry they’ll tell you. I haven’t mentioned it 5 times already so you can be pretty sure I haven’t. I know too many people that have worked there to ever make that mistake. But more importantly, have you worked there in the last decade?
        raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
        Then you have know idea how Amazon works. I was there from 2020-2023. And before that I worked at 4 product companies when new to the company managers /directors/CTOs needed someone to bring in best practices and build and teach teams. I honestly wonder what type of “big ball of mud” implementations (https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-big-ball-of-mud-and-other-architectural-disasters/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-big-ball-of-mud-and-other-...) you have had to deal with that weren’t properly componentized and covered by tests.

sarchertech 8mo ago

Unfortunately you are not equipped to observe and test all or even most of the behavior of a non-trivial system. And if you attempt to treat every module in your system like it’s untrusted 3rd party code you’ll run into severe complexity and size limits. No one codes large systems like that because it’s not possible. There are always escape hatches and entanglements.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
Actual a little company you might have heard of called Amazon does… Jeff Bezos mandated it in 2002. https://konghq.com/blog/enterprise/api-mandate https://konghq.com/blog/enterprise/api-mandate AWS S3 by itself is made up of 200+ micro services
- sarchertech 8mo ago
  Except that they don’t. The API mandate gets violated all the time. And no one at Amazon actually treats every other team as a 3rd party.
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    Have you worked at Amazon? I am not saying they treat every other team as a third party. I am saying they treat the code itself as a black box with well defined interfaces. They aren’t reaching in to another services data store to retrieve information.
    - sarchertech 8mo ago
      How do you know someone is ex-Amazon ? Don’t worry they’ll tell you. I haven’t mentioned it 5 times already so you can be pretty sure I haven’t. I know too many people that have worked there to ever make that mistake. But more importantly, have you worked there in the last decade?
      - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
        Then you have know idea how Amazon works. I was there from 2020-2023. And before that I worked at 4 product companies when new to the company managers /directors/CTOs needed someone to bring in best practices and build and teach teams. I honestly wonder what type of “big ball of mud” implementations (https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-big-ball-of-mud-and-other-architectural-disasters/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-big-ball-of-mud-and-other-...) you have had to deal with that weren’t properly componentized and covered by tests.