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A professional looks at and understands the situation as it exists now. A professional is trained to not get into situations where fear controls them. Your argu

A professional looks at and understands the situation as it exists now. A professional is trained to not get into situations where fear controls them. Your argument is a compelling one that either these are not professionals or that they are professionals and are doing this on purpose. The stats today clearly show the massive difference between danger to Israeli personnel and Palestinians. Israel at this point has either failed to train professional forces that seek to deescalate and avoid dangerous situations or is training forces to find situations they can claim fear as a justification for murder. So, pick. They are either amateurs at which point it is a deplorable to put amateurs with this much force near a vulnerable population or they are professionals trained to do exactly this, find ways to kill a vulnerable population and claim self defense.

dmitrygr 7mo ago
[flagged]
- ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
  So what exactly did the 8 year old boy sat in the back of his parents car do wrong?
  - dmitrygr 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Dusseldorf 7mo ago
      Again, what law was broken here? By anyone in the car? I'm struggling to understand how this wasn't outright execution.
    - mcphage 7mo ago
      > I cannot wait for "kid" to be a number one accessory to bring to a heist then. And when that happens then we can have a conversation. But as it is, you’re justifying slaughtering a family because of a story you invented.
    - ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
      Luck implies a lack of fault. Also we probably shouldn't open fire on suspects fleeing from a heist either, kid or no kid. Extra-judical justice is generally a bad thing, this is why pit maneuvers exist. Allowing police to fire at moving vehicles is a universally bad idea, and one thats understood by most nations.
- jmward01 7mo ago
  I'll repeat the bit about professionals being trained to avoid and deescalate. That is the point. I think the details of this, and many similar incidents clearly show a lack of attempt to deescalate or avoid. That was the clear argument I made in my post and am re-emphasizing now. This clear trend shows either malicious intent by professionals or amateurs put in a situation they shouldn't have been allowed near and those above them should be held accountable for it.
- DiogenesKynikos 7mo ago
  The IDF is not law enforcement. It's a foreign army. It treats Palestinians with utter contempt and has no problem with killing them. Its job is to protect Israeli settlers who are taking Palestinian land and to prevent the Palestinians from resisting Israeli rule. Comparing the IDF to law enforcement in a democratic country is not relevant.
- mindslight 7mo ago
  Or in democratic societies we can insist that our "public servants" actually serve the public interest of law and order rather than merely using it as a pretext to be able to commit their own violent crimes. Your rationalization is nothing more than a product of a failed society. Bringing it up as pragmatic advice might make sense, although still not for this incident where the "offense" seems to have been merely stopping a car on the side of the road. But invoking it as some universal value of "what ought" is a pure crab bucket mentality.
  - dmitrygr 7mo ago
    Then by your logic, every society on earth failed, because there are no places where you can act belligerently towards law enforcement and expect it to end well.
    - mindslight 7mo ago
      Perhaps by your obtusely applied system of logic, but not by mine. Societal values are ideals to be worked towards, not some sort of axiomatic foundation that pops into existence fully formed. The failed society condemnation pertains to your remark, which comes from a place of having given up on the idea that governments should be accountable to their citizens - aka authoritarianism.
    - donkeybeer 7mo ago
      Correct, they failed. Cops are rightfully called all kinds of nice things in all countries. We are far from having what should be a non failed society. But liberal democratic capitalist countries get much closer to success.

dmitrygr 7mo ago

[flagged]

ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
So what exactly did the 8 year old boy sat in the back of his parents car do wrong?
- dmitrygr 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Dusseldorf 7mo ago
    Again, what law was broken here? By anyone in the car? I'm struggling to understand how this wasn't outright execution.
  - mcphage 7mo ago
    > I cannot wait for "kid" to be a number one accessory to bring to a heist then. And when that happens then we can have a conversation. But as it is, you’re justifying slaughtering a family because of a story you invented.
  - ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
    Luck implies a lack of fault. Also we probably shouldn't open fire on suspects fleeing from a heist either, kid or no kid. Extra-judical justice is generally a bad thing, this is why pit maneuvers exist. Allowing police to fire at moving vehicles is a universally bad idea, and one thats understood by most nations.
jmward01 7mo ago
I'll repeat the bit about professionals being trained to avoid and deescalate. That is the point. I think the details of this, and many similar incidents clearly show a lack of attempt to deescalate or avoid. That was the clear argument I made in my post and am re-emphasizing now. This clear trend shows either malicious intent by professionals or amateurs put in a situation they shouldn't have been allowed near and those above them should be held accountable for it.
DiogenesKynikos 7mo ago
The IDF is not law enforcement. It's a foreign army. It treats Palestinians with utter contempt and has no problem with killing them. Its job is to protect Israeli settlers who are taking Palestinian land and to prevent the Palestinians from resisting Israeli rule. Comparing the IDF to law enforcement in a democratic country is not relevant.
mindslight 7mo ago
Or in democratic societies we can insist that our "public servants" actually serve the public interest of law and order rather than merely using it as a pretext to be able to commit their own violent crimes. Your rationalization is nothing more than a product of a failed society. Bringing it up as pragmatic advice might make sense, although still not for this incident where the "offense" seems to have been merely stopping a car on the side of the road. But invoking it as some universal value of "what ought" is a pure crab bucket mentality.
- dmitrygr 7mo ago
  Then by your logic, every society on earth failed, because there are no places where you can act belligerently towards law enforcement and expect it to end well.
  - mindslight 7mo ago
    Perhaps by your obtusely applied system of logic, but not by mine. Societal values are ideals to be worked towards, not some sort of axiomatic foundation that pops into existence fully formed. The failed society condemnation pertains to your remark, which comes from a place of having given up on the idea that governments should be accountable to their citizens - aka authoritarianism.
  - donkeybeer 7mo ago
    Correct, they failed. Cops are rightfully called all kinds of nice things in all countries. We are far from having what should be a non failed society. But liberal democratic capitalist countries get much closer to success.