5 ms·

DOJ to Allow Hiring of US Prosecutors Straight Out of Law School

29 points by petethomas 8mo ago

qmarchi 8mo ago
AKA: the fast track to setting disbarred and sanctioned.
baby_souffle 8mo ago
You can smell the desperation from here. Have to wonder if any of these fresh graduates are wondering about what long-term damage they may be doing to their professional reputation. How hirable will you be if the first few years of your law career you were were laughed out of every Court because you were trying to defend a historically unpopular administration?
- polski-g 8mo ago
  I think the administration is 21 and 2 in the only court that matters.
  - CryptoBanker 8mo ago
    These kids won't be arguing before the Supreme Court though. They'll be taking the losses at the lower levels
    - alephnerd 8mo ago
      Not really - most USAO cases are settled. Also, most of the vacancies are for federal prosecutor roles.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
- alephnerd 8mo ago
  > Have to wonder if any of these fresh graduates are wondering about what long-term damage they may be doing to their professional reputation. The legal market is brutal and KJDs need to pay off their undergrad, law school, and maybe even grad school debt. The average and median salary of a Harvard Law graduate is $167K and $225K respectively [0], but your JD cost of attendance would be around $400K [1] and your bachelors degree would have been around $200K. For those who did grad school (and a large portion did) you can throw in an additional $150-200K. If you are looking at a $600K-800K in overall debt, you would rationally take any job that you can - especially one with amazing exit opps like the USAO (more on that below). And this is HYS, where employment statistics are some of the best. And it's not as if conservative minded legal students are rare [2] - 49.91% of Americans voters voted for Trump in 2024 versus 48.43% for Harris [3]. > How hirable will you be if the first few years of your law career you were were laughed out of every Court because you were trying to defend a historically unpopular administration Becoming an AUSA is a very prestigious government job. You become a federal employee of the DoJ, with somewhat easier hours than working BigLaw and an easier pathway to federal judgeships and political office. Additonally, depending on your location lobbying firms, BigLaw, and even media would pay top dollar for AUSAs due to their relationships - sometimes making them partner right away. Kash Patel, Loretta Lynch, Rudy Giuliani, Eric Holder, Alejandro Mayorkas, Dan Goldman, James Comey, and others in both parties were former AUSAs. People would spend entire careers trying to become an AUSA and at least at Harvard we had a mini-guide [4] on how to target a role at the USAO that both undergrads targeting law school and JDs used to refer to. [0] - https://hls.harvard.edu/career-planning/recent-employment-data/ https://hls.harvard.edu/career-planning/recent-employment-da... [1] - https://hls.harvard.edu/sfs/financial-aid/financial-aid-policy/cost-of-attendance/ https://hls.harvard.edu/sfs/financial-aid/financial-aid-poli... [2] - https://fedsoc.org/ https://fedsoc.org/ [3] - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/05/us/elections/results-president.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/05/us/elections/... [4] - https://hls.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/fast-track-final.pdf https://hls.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/fast-trac...
  - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
    [dead]
  - 8mo ago
DangitBobby 8mo ago
I think resigning in protest does more harm than good in the long run. They just replace you with a loyalist or an incompetent. Don't do their job for them. Make them fire you.
- mjcl 8mo ago
  I think there is some benefit to resigning because you can see the DOJ is already suffering in court from sub-par lawyering. Every departure of a competent DOJ lawyer puts even more pressure on the remaining ones and there's only 24 hours in a day.
- cyanydeez 8mo ago
  Slowing the fall into fascism seems to be how you entrain fascism.
- keernan 8mo ago
  I suspect 'resigning in protest' is a news media term and that attorneys are resigning because that is what ethics require when confronted with demands to conduct themselves in illegal or improper ways.
  - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
    > suspect 'resigning in protest' is a news media term and that attorneys are resigning because that is what ethics require when confronted with demands to conduct themselves in illegal or improper ways So an accurate term. What does “news media term” mean for you?
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
  > resigning in protest does more harm than good in the long run. They just replace you with a loyalist or an incompetent We’re seeing measurable effects from these resignations. A competent prosecutor could have indicted Comey. They resigned. And Halligan dropped the ball. Same as the other make-up obsessed idiots behind them.
rolph 8mo ago
typically you avoid people long in the tooth of thier career if you need vice-grip control over your subordinates. these freshies, probates, pledges, strykers and cannon fodder, will be stood up to scapegoat and rotated out for inner circle members who will solve the newbie generated failure, to great accolades
burnt-resistor 8mo ago
Previously per Harvard law school advice: USAOs do not ordinarily hire AUSAs directly from law school or clerkships. The limited exception to this practice is the Department of Justice’s Honors Program, which typically includes some AUSA positions. If accepted through the Honors Program, an applicant can become an AUSA straight out of a clerkship or fellowship. For the most part, however, AUSAs are hired at least three but more commonly four to eight years out of law school, after a clerkship and/or time litigating for a law firm, working as an Assistant District Attorney (ADA), or obtaining comparable litigation experience, perhaps at a state Attorney General’s or City Attorney’s office. Hiring decisions are holistic, and rest on one’s academic record, litigation experience, writing skills, commitment to public service, personal recommendations, and interviews. https://hls.harvard.edu/bernard-koteen-office-of-public-interest-advising/opia-job-search-toolkit/career-and-application-guides/the-path-to-a-u-s-attorneys-office/#the-path-to-a-usao-what-usaos-look-for https://hls.harvard.edu/bernard-koteen-office-of-public-inte...

29 points by petethomas 8mo ago

AKA: the fast track to setting disbarred and sanctioned.

You can smell the desperation from here. Have to wonder if any of these fresh graduates are wondering about what long-term damage they may be doing to their professional reputation. How hirable will you be if the first few years of your law career you were were laughed out of every Court because you were trying to defend a historically unpopular administration?

polski-g 8mo ago
I think the administration is 21 and 2 in the only court that matters.
- CryptoBanker 8mo ago
  These kids won't be arguing before the Supreme Court though. They'll be taking the losses at the lower levels
  - alephnerd 8mo ago
    Not really - most USAO cases are settled. Also, most of the vacancies are for federal prosecutor roles.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
alephnerd 8mo ago
> Have to wonder if any of these fresh graduates are wondering about what long-term damage they may be doing to their professional reputation. The legal market is brutal and KJDs need to pay off their undergrad, law school, and maybe even grad school debt. The average and median salary of a Harvard Law graduate is $167K and $225K respectively [0], but your JD cost of attendance would be around $400K [1] and your bachelors degree would have been around $200K. For those who did grad school (and a large portion did) you can throw in an additional $150-200K. If you are looking at a $600K-800K in overall debt, you would rationally take any job that you can - especially one with amazing exit opps like the USAO (more on that below). And this is HYS, where employment statistics are some of the best. And it's not as if conservative minded legal students are rare [2] - 49.91% of Americans voters voted for Trump in 2024 versus 48.43% for Harris [3]. > How hirable will you be if the first few years of your law career you were were laughed out of every Court because you were trying to defend a historically unpopular administration Becoming an AUSA is a very prestigious government job. You become a federal employee of the DoJ, with somewhat easier hours than working BigLaw and an easier pathway to federal judgeships and political office. Additonally, depending on your location lobbying firms, BigLaw, and even media would pay top dollar for AUSAs due to their relationships - sometimes making them partner right away. Kash Patel, Loretta Lynch, Rudy Giuliani, Eric Holder, Alejandro Mayorkas, Dan Goldman, James Comey, and others in both parties were former AUSAs. People would spend entire careers trying to become an AUSA and at least at Harvard we had a mini-guide [4] on how to target a role at the USAO that both undergrads targeting law school and JDs used to refer to. [0] - https://hls.harvard.edu/career-planning/recent-employment-data/ https://hls.harvard.edu/career-planning/recent-employment-da... [1] - https://hls.harvard.edu/sfs/financial-aid/financial-aid-policy/cost-of-attendance/ https://hls.harvard.edu/sfs/financial-aid/financial-aid-poli... [2] - https://fedsoc.org/ https://fedsoc.org/ [3] - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/05/us/elections/results-president.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/05/us/elections/... [4] - https://hls.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/fast-track-final.pdf https://hls.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/fast-trac...
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
  [dead]
- 8mo ago

DangitBobby 8mo ago

I think resigning in protest does more harm than good in the long run. They just replace you with a loyalist or an incompetent. Don't do their job for them. Make them fire you.

mjcl 8mo ago
I think there is some benefit to resigning because you can see the DOJ is already suffering in court from sub-par lawyering. Every departure of a competent DOJ lawyer puts even more pressure on the remaining ones and there's only 24 hours in a day.
cyanydeez 8mo ago
Slowing the fall into fascism seems to be how you entrain fascism.
keernan 8mo ago
I suspect 'resigning in protest' is a news media term and that attorneys are resigning because that is what ethics require when confronted with demands to conduct themselves in illegal or improper ways.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
  > suspect 'resigning in protest' is a news media term and that attorneys are resigning because that is what ethics require when confronted with demands to conduct themselves in illegal or improper ways So an accurate term. What does “news media term” mean for you?
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
> resigning in protest does more harm than good in the long run. They just replace you with a loyalist or an incompetent We’re seeing measurable effects from these resignations. A competent prosecutor could have indicted Comey. They resigned. And Halligan dropped the ball. Same as the other make-up obsessed idiots behind them.

rolph 8mo ago

typically you avoid people long in the tooth of thier career if you need vice-grip control over your subordinates. these freshies, probates, pledges, strykers and cannon fodder, will be stood up to scapegoat and rotated out for inner circle members who will solve the newbie generated failure, to great accolades

burnt-resistor 8mo ago

Previously per Harvard law school advice: USAOs do not ordinarily hire AUSAs directly from law school or clerkships. The limited exception to this practice is the Department of Justice’s Honors Program, which typically includes some AUSA positions. If accepted through the Honors Program, an applicant can become an AUSA straight out of a clerkship or fellowship. For the most part, however, AUSAs are hired at least three but more commonly four to eight years out of law school, after a clerkship and/or time litigating for a law firm, working as an Assistant District Attorney (ADA), or obtaining comparable litigation experience, perhaps at a state Attorney General’s or City Attorney’s office. Hiring decisions are holistic, and rest on one’s academic record, litigation experience, writing skills, commitment to public service, personal recommendations, and interviews. https://hls.harvard.edu/bernard-koteen-office-of-public-interest-advising/opia-job-search-toolkit/career-and-application-guides/the-path-to-a-u-s-attorneys-office/#the-path-to-a-usao-what-usaos-look-for https://hls.harvard.edu/bernard-koteen-office-of-public-inte...