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I have followed this conflict since Operation Cast Lead and the beginnings of the siege on Gaza. Israel has been using enormous amounts of force against the Pa

by olelele 7mo ago

I have followed this conflict since Operation Cast Lead and the beginnings of the siege on Gaza. Israel has been using enormous amounts of force against the Palestinian people since then, with death tolls of _at least_ 100 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli. For a very good account of life in Israel around the time of Cast Lead I recommend Guy Delisle, brilliant diary in comic form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem:_Chronicles_from_the_Holy_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem:_Chronicles_from_the... His partner was working for Doctors Without Borders, the Israeli Army refused to let them enter Gaza to help the people suffering under their bombardments.

nailer 7mo ago
[flagged]
- olelele 7mo ago
  There are horrific acts on both sides going back very very far. I grew up in a country with a relatively balanced media reporting on the issue and have tried my best to stay informed. Suicide bombings, bus hijackings, mass murders. The inequality in force applied has still been a constant. Also, the fact is that any peace deal has been made impossible by the hunting down and killing of anyone that could actually hold that conversation. All secular and left wing movements in Palestine have been eradicated in favor of Hamas, Islamic Jihad et al. Likewise the Israeli extreme right wing now in power killed their own prime minister for trying to negotiate. Also see the birth of Hezbollah as a response to Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which also gave rise to suicide bombings. These then spread across the region. The reason Israel invaded was to fight the Palestinians there who were displaced by the founding of the Israeli state and the following conflicts. Edit: the Palestinian groups there were doing raids in northern Israel and fleeing back across the border to Lebanon It's a gordian knot at this point and i am very doubtful there will ever be a peaceful solution.
  - hjkl0 7mo ago
    > i am very doubtful there will ever be a peaceful solution. I wonder if there’s room for any actual discussion here. This topic is damned from the first upvote. Curious what people’s thoughts are about a non-peaceful solution. For example, do you think that other countries should send their militaries over to help one of the sides win?
    - olelele 7mo ago
      All I can think is that there is no chance of proper peace talks or any kind of truth commission since oct 7 / the genocide in Gaza. The most likely outcome in my view is that Israel succeeds in cleansing and redeveloping Gaza and keeps settling and splitting up the West Bank until the Palestinians become nothing but 2nd class citizens in a singular state. This will not stop the terror attacks. It's all very depressing. I think both sides have lost.
      - nailer 7mo ago
        [flagged]
        olelele 7mo ago
        Israel has put Gaza under siege & total blockade since 2006. The population has been used for low paid work in Israel and treated more or less like cattle.
        nailer 7mo ago
        [flagged]
    - donkeybeer 7mo ago
      Forcible accounting of the 200 nukes, their confiscation/decommissioning and crippling bloackades against the country illegally holding nukes and lying about them could be a beginning.
    - nailer 7mo ago
  - nailer 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - olelele 7mo ago
      I try my best to keep a nuanced discussion going here and you obviously have no interest in this. Enjoy your flagged post.
      - vladgur 7mo ago
        But what GP said is true - we can see UNRWA educational materials.[0] Im not sure what is being taught in orthodox jewish schools in Israel, but I’m pretty certain that in secular Israeli public schools, death of Arab neighbors is not glorified, terrorism and martyrdom is not glorified. [1] Unlike that of UNRWA. In other words, one side promotes violence, the other does not [0] https://www.cfr.org/articles/teaching-hate-palestinian-schools https://www.cfr.org/articles/teaching-hate-palestinian-schoo... [1] https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ArabsPalestiniansIsraeliSchoolTextbooks-Y.Manor_.pdf https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ArabsPa...
        nailer 7mo ago
        HN flagged a post that pointed out that Palestinians continually attack Israeli civilians. One can listen to any news article to point out each night’s rocket attacks and confirm them. It’s not surprising they would also flag a post pointing out UNRWA curriculum. Because people flag facts, this site is essentially a cesspool when it comes to discussing anything political. The moderators have recently been manually un flagging political posts, and then writing their own comments about people they dislike such as Dan’s recent comment about Elon Musk. It’s a cliche that everyone thinks a site is going downhill, but Hacker News is absolutely going downhill.
        ImPostingOnHN 7mo ago
        > HN flagged a post that pointed out that Palestinians continually attack Israeli civilians I think the people might have chosen to downvote it for omitting the critical context that israelis continually attack Palestinian civilians, more frequently and in greater numbers. Personally, I don't think that critical omission was done intentionally. People make mistakes! It's how we respond when those mistakes are pointed out, which defined us. Do we acknowledge the mistake, correct ourselves, maybe apologize? Or do we double down and complain when people point it out?

by olelele 7mo ago

nailer 7mo ago

[flagged]

olelele 7mo ago
There are horrific acts on both sides going back very very far. I grew up in a country with a relatively balanced media reporting on the issue and have tried my best to stay informed. Suicide bombings, bus hijackings, mass murders. The inequality in force applied has still been a constant. Also, the fact is that any peace deal has been made impossible by the hunting down and killing of anyone that could actually hold that conversation. All secular and left wing movements in Palestine have been eradicated in favor of Hamas, Islamic Jihad et al. Likewise the Israeli extreme right wing now in power killed their own prime minister for trying to negotiate. Also see the birth of Hezbollah as a response to Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which also gave rise to suicide bombings. These then spread across the region. The reason Israel invaded was to fight the Palestinians there who were displaced by the founding of the Israeli state and the following conflicts. Edit: the Palestinian groups there were doing raids in northern Israel and fleeing back across the border to Lebanon It's a gordian knot at this point and i am very doubtful there will ever be a peaceful solution.
- hjkl0 7mo ago
  > i am very doubtful there will ever be a peaceful solution. I wonder if there’s room for any actual discussion here. This topic is damned from the first upvote. Curious what people’s thoughts are about a non-peaceful solution. For example, do you think that other countries should send their militaries over to help one of the sides win?
  - olelele 7mo ago
    All I can think is that there is no chance of proper peace talks or any kind of truth commission since oct 7 / the genocide in Gaza. The most likely outcome in my view is that Israel succeeds in cleansing and redeveloping Gaza and keeps settling and splitting up the West Bank until the Palestinians become nothing but 2nd class citizens in a singular state. This will not stop the terror attacks. It's all very depressing. I think both sides have lost.
    - nailer 7mo ago
      [flagged]
      - olelele 7mo ago
        Israel has put Gaza under siege & total blockade since 2006. The population has been used for low paid work in Israel and treated more or less like cattle.
        nailer 7mo ago
        [flagged]
  - donkeybeer 7mo ago
    Forcible accounting of the 200 nukes, their confiscation/decommissioning and crippling bloackades against the country illegally holding nukes and lying about them could be a beginning.
  - nailer 7mo ago
- nailer 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - olelele 7mo ago
    I try my best to keep a nuanced discussion going here and you obviously have no interest in this. Enjoy your flagged post.
    - vladgur 7mo ago
      But what GP said is true - we can see UNRWA educational materials.[0] Im not sure what is being taught in orthodox jewish schools in Israel, but I’m pretty certain that in secular Israeli public schools, death of Arab neighbors is not glorified, terrorism and martyrdom is not glorified. [1] Unlike that of UNRWA. In other words, one side promotes violence, the other does not [0] https://www.cfr.org/articles/teaching-hate-palestinian-schools https://www.cfr.org/articles/teaching-hate-palestinian-schoo... [1] https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ArabsPalestiniansIsraeliSchoolTextbooks-Y.Manor_.pdf https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ArabsPa...
      - nailer 7mo ago
        HN flagged a post that pointed out that Palestinians continually attack Israeli civilians. One can listen to any news article to point out each night’s rocket attacks and confirm them. It’s not surprising they would also flag a post pointing out UNRWA curriculum. Because people flag facts, this site is essentially a cesspool when it comes to discussing anything political. The moderators have recently been manually un flagging political posts, and then writing their own comments about people they dislike such as Dan’s recent comment about Elon Musk. It’s a cliche that everyone thinks a site is going downhill, but Hacker News is absolutely going downhill.
        ImPostingOnHN 7mo ago
        > HN flagged a post that pointed out that Palestinians continually attack Israeli civilians I think the people might have chosen to downvote it for omitting the critical context that israelis continually attack Palestinian civilians, more frequently and in greater numbers. Personally, I don't think that critical omission was done intentionally. People make mistakes! It's how we respond when those mistakes are pointed out, which defined us. Do we acknowledge the mistake, correct ourselves, maybe apologize? Or do we double down and complain when people point it out?