3 ms·

Because the old state of affairs had desperate people being experimented on by opportunists, charlatans and fraudsters for money. There's work to be done balanc

by rtkwe 7mo ago

Because the old state of affairs had desperate people being experimented on by opportunists, charlatans and fraudsters for money. There's work to be done balancing the equities of people with terminal diagnoses but lets not pretend there's no point to the roadblocks to human experimentation on the dying.

SilentM68 7mo ago
That sounds about right. Lots of abuses have been perpetrated by opportunists, charlatans, fraudsters all for money, as you put it. I just want to make sure we correctly distinguish what is meant by "opportunists, charlatans, fraudsters." In the spirit of full transparency, I've listed some of the most well-known cases. Others, due to the Iron Curtain and similar curtains are hard to document, due to lack of visual inspection. Just the same I've listed them for transparency's sake: Western Bloc: Tuskegee Syphilis Study (US, 1932–1972) Project MKUltra (US/CIA, 1953–1973) Human radiation experiments (US, 1940s–1970s) Porton Down nerve/chemical tests (UK, 1950s–1960s) Ewen Cameron brainwashing/LSD experiments (Canada, 1950s–1960s) Eastern Bloc: Soviet Gulag prisoner chemical/medical experiments (USSR, 1930s–1950s) Punitive psychiatry experiments on dissidents (USSR, 1950s–1980s) Pre-1940s Germany: Nazi eugenics forced sterilizations (1933 Hereditary Health Law; ~400,000 citizens) Pre-1940s Japan: Unit 731 biological/chemical experiments (est. 1936; pathogen injections, early vivisections on prisoners) Axis Powers: Nazi Germany: concentration camp medical experiments (Dachau/Auschwitz hypothermia, twins, sterilization; mainly 1941–1945) Imperial Japan: Unit 731 & affiliates (vivisections, plague/anthrax tests; ~3,000+ direct deaths, 200k+ from field use) Fascist Italy: No major documented equivalent programs Asia: Japanese-occupied territories (China, Manchuria, Korea, etc.): Unit 731 satellites (biological warfare tests on local citizens/POWs) By the way, all the above instances are part of history. Greed is greed, whether "Capitalist, Socialist or Communist-oriented." In my view there is no distinction between modern day and historic "opportunists, charlatans, and fraudsters." Greed is Greed!
- notahacker 7mo ago
  Quite remarkable how you are unable to make the link between "unethical medical experiments bad" and "maybe we should have some sort of medical ethics regulating whether people are able to perform a medical experiment"...
  - SilentM68 7mo ago
    Ok, now you are grasping at straws by trying to find faults in my logic. I am able to distinguish just fine. Most people, me included, are just tired of managing their deceases vs having an actual, permanent solution that works. The modern medical establishment's therapeutic approach has evolved to focus on the former and totally ignored the latter. In doing so, it has failed its patients, alienating them in the process, all in the name of greed. Self-interest and greed are universal concepts. Don't worry, once the singularity comes about, things will change, for better or worse, but hopefully for the better ;)

by rtkwe 7mo ago

SilentM68 7mo ago

That sounds about right. Lots of abuses have been perpetrated by opportunists, charlatans, fraudsters all for money, as you put it. I just want to make sure we correctly distinguish what is meant by "opportunists, charlatans, fraudsters." In the spirit of full transparency, I've listed some of the most well-known cases. Others, due to the Iron Curtain and similar curtains are hard to document, due to lack of visual inspection. Just the same I've listed them for transparency's sake: Western Bloc: Tuskegee Syphilis Study (US, 1932–1972) Project MKUltra (US/CIA, 1953–1973) Human radiation experiments (US, 1940s–1970s) Porton Down nerve/chemical tests (UK, 1950s–1960s) Ewen Cameron brainwashing/LSD experiments (Canada, 1950s–1960s) Eastern Bloc: Soviet Gulag prisoner chemical/medical experiments (USSR, 1930s–1950s) Punitive psychiatry experiments on dissidents (USSR, 1950s–1980s) Pre-1940s Germany: Nazi eugenics forced sterilizations (1933 Hereditary Health Law; ~400,000 citizens) Pre-1940s Japan: Unit 731 biological/chemical experiments (est. 1936; pathogen injections, early vivisections on prisoners) Axis Powers: Nazi Germany: concentration camp medical experiments (Dachau/Auschwitz hypothermia, twins, sterilization; mainly 1941–1945) Imperial Japan: Unit 731 & affiliates (vivisections, plague/anthrax tests; ~3,000+ direct deaths, 200k+ from field use) Fascist Italy: No major documented equivalent programs Asia: Japanese-occupied territories (China, Manchuria, Korea, etc.): Unit 731 satellites (biological warfare tests on local citizens/POWs) By the way, all the above instances are part of history. Greed is greed, whether "Capitalist, Socialist or Communist-oriented." In my view there is no distinction between modern day and historic "opportunists, charlatans, and fraudsters." Greed is Greed!

notahacker 7mo ago
Quite remarkable how you are unable to make the link between "unethical medical experiments bad" and "maybe we should have some sort of medical ethics regulating whether people are able to perform a medical experiment"...
- SilentM68 7mo ago
  Ok, now you are grasping at straws by trying to find faults in my logic. I am able to distinguish just fine. Most people, me included, are just tired of managing their deceases vs having an actual, permanent solution that works. The modern medical establishment's therapeutic approach has evolved to focus on the former and totally ignored the latter. In doing so, it has failed its patients, alienating them in the process, all in the name of greed. Self-interest and greed are universal concepts. Don't worry, once the singularity comes about, things will change, for better or worse, but hopefully for the better ;)