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For one you don't let random devs hop on and off projects without code reviews, which is what people who say they don't care about the code should be doing. An

For one you don't let random devs hop on and off projects without code reviews, which is what people who say they don't care about the code should be doing. And 2 clearly agents are worse at reasoning through code changes than humans are.

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
And the team lead with 7 developers isn’t going to be doing code reviews of all the code. At most he is going to be reviewing those critical paths. I could care less about the implementation behind the vibe coded admin website that will only be used by a dozen people. I care about the authorization. Even the ETL job, I cared only about the performance characteristics, the resulting correctness, concurrency, logging, and correctness of the results.
- sarchertech 7mo ago
  >And the team lead with 7 developers isn’t going to be doing code reviews of all the code. At most he is going to be reviewing those critical paths. Why would the team lead need to review all 7 developers? If you're regularly swapping out every single developer on a team, you're gonna have problems. >I could care less about the implementation behind the vibe coded admin website that will only be used by a dozen people. I care about the authorization. If you only have 12 users sure do whatever you want. If you don't have users nothing is hard.
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    It was 12 users who monitored and managed the ETL job. If I had 1 million users what difference would the front end code have made if the backend architecture was secure, scalable, etc. if the login is taking 2 minutes. I can guarantee you it’s not because the developer failed to write SOLID code…
    - sarchertech 7mo ago
      There you go arguing with strawmen again. I don’t give a single flying flip about SOLID, or Clean Code, or GoF. People who read Clean Code as their first programming but and made that their identity have been the bane of my existence as a programmer. It’s not about how long something is taking although that is an observable behavior. It’s about how 1 million users over time will develop ways of using your product that you never thought about, much less documented or tested. Perhaps you’ve heard the phrase “The purpose of the system is what it does”? The system is the not the spec or the tests. An agent is only reasoning about how to add a new feature, and the only thing preventing from changing observable behavior is the tests. So if an agent is changing untested behavior it’s changing the purpose of the system.
      - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        Thats not exactly a great argument depending on undefined behavior. Should I as a developer depend on “undefined behavior” in C (yes undefined behavior is explicitly defined in C)? On a user facing note, I did a project where I threw stats in DDB just for my own observation knowing very well that was the worse database to use since it does no aggregation type queries (sum, average, etc). I didn’t document it, I didn’t talk about it and yet the developer on their side used it when I specifically documented that he should subscribe to the SNS topic that I emit events to and ingest the data to his own Oracle database. No library maintainer for instance of C# or Java library is going to promise that private functions that a developer got access to via reflection is not going to change. I’m solely responsible for public documented interfaces and behaviors. Oh and that gets back to an earlier point, how do I know that my systems will be able to be maintained? For the most part I design my systems to do a “thing” with clearly defined entry points and extension points and exit points and interfaces. In the case I’m referring to above - it was a search system that was based on “agents” some RAG based, one using a Postgres database with a similarity search, and an orchestrator. You extend the system by adding a new lambda and registering it and prioritizing results if the agent with my vibe coded GUI. Apple is famous for instance for not caring if you tried to use private APIs and it broke in a new version.
        7mo ago
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago

And the team lead with 7 developers isn’t going to be doing code reviews of all the code. At most he is going to be reviewing those critical paths. I could care less about the implementation behind the vibe coded admin website that will only be used by a dozen people. I care about the authorization. Even the ETL job, I cared only about the performance characteristics, the resulting correctness, concurrency, logging, and correctness of the results.

sarchertech 7mo ago
>And the team lead with 7 developers isn’t going to be doing code reviews of all the code. At most he is going to be reviewing those critical paths. Why would the team lead need to review all 7 developers? If you're regularly swapping out every single developer on a team, you're gonna have problems. >I could care less about the implementation behind the vibe coded admin website that will only be used by a dozen people. I care about the authorization. If you only have 12 users sure do whatever you want. If you don't have users nothing is hard.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  It was 12 users who monitored and managed the ETL job. If I had 1 million users what difference would the front end code have made if the backend architecture was secure, scalable, etc. if the login is taking 2 minutes. I can guarantee you it’s not because the developer failed to write SOLID code…
  - sarchertech 7mo ago
    There you go arguing with strawmen again. I don’t give a single flying flip about SOLID, or Clean Code, or GoF. People who read Clean Code as their first programming but and made that their identity have been the bane of my existence as a programmer. It’s not about how long something is taking although that is an observable behavior. It’s about how 1 million users over time will develop ways of using your product that you never thought about, much less documented or tested. Perhaps you’ve heard the phrase “The purpose of the system is what it does”? The system is the not the spec or the tests. An agent is only reasoning about how to add a new feature, and the only thing preventing from changing observable behavior is the tests. So if an agent is changing untested behavior it’s changing the purpose of the system.
    - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
      Thats not exactly a great argument depending on undefined behavior. Should I as a developer depend on “undefined behavior” in C (yes undefined behavior is explicitly defined in C)? On a user facing note, I did a project where I threw stats in DDB just for my own observation knowing very well that was the worse database to use since it does no aggregation type queries (sum, average, etc). I didn’t document it, I didn’t talk about it and yet the developer on their side used it when I specifically documented that he should subscribe to the SNS topic that I emit events to and ingest the data to his own Oracle database. No library maintainer for instance of C# or Java library is going to promise that private functions that a developer got access to via reflection is not going to change. I’m solely responsible for public documented interfaces and behaviors. Oh and that gets back to an earlier point, how do I know that my systems will be able to be maintained? For the most part I design my systems to do a “thing” with clearly defined entry points and extension points and exit points and interfaces. In the case I’m referring to above - it was a search system that was based on “agents” some RAG based, one using a Postgres database with a similarity search, and an orchestrator. You extend the system by adding a new lambda and registering it and prioritizing results if the agent with my vibe coded GUI. Apple is famous for instance for not caring if you tried to use private APIs and it broke in a new version.
      - 7mo ago

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]