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> It's largely by stealing from future generations that we've been able to solve many short term problems This seems to be a fairly unjustified claim. What exa

> It's largely by stealing from future generations that we've been able to solve many short term problems This seems to be a fairly unjustified claim. What exactly have we "stolen" from them? It rather seems that we've given greatly to future generations. We've discovered ways of producing orders of magnitude more food from the same plots of land. We've taught ourselves a good deal about how the universe operates, and (through technology) how to gain control over our lives to a great and growing extent.

Alex3917 14y ago
"We've discovered ways of producing orders of magnitude more food from the same plots of land." By completely depleting our non-renewable resources: groundwater, soil, and oil.
- argumentum 14y ago
  70% of the earth is covered by water. If need be we can always desalinate with nuclear energy. Soil? Are you serious? 95% of soil depletion has happened in the last century, true, but we only discovered that soil can be depleted as a result. We also discovered that it can be replenished, and how to accomplish this.
  - Alex3917 14y ago
    "If need be we can always desalinate with nuclear energy." While I have no doubt that renewable energy, nuclear, and desalination technology will all continue to improve, it's hard to believe that desalinating enough water to grow food for 10 billion people will ever be possible. I have no doubt that civilization will be possible at some level, but the claim of the original article is that things will continue to get better for the 5 billion people who are going to be at the bottom of the pyramid, which seems dubious. Also, while soil can be renewed, it isn't currently happening. And while it could happen at some point in the future, when we get hit by the triple threat of no more cheap water and oil-based fertilizer it's hard to believe that we're going to be able to fix all three problems at once without first going through a period of mass starvation and/or another world war. It's certainly possible that we'll rise to the challenge through a combination of new technology and competent leadership, but based on the way things are going currently it seems like an outside chance.
    - argumentum 14y ago
      It's certainly possible that we'll rise to the challenge through a combination of new technology and competent leadership... There you go, that's the beginning of optimism :)

Alex3917 14y ago

"We've discovered ways of producing orders of magnitude more food from the same plots of land." By completely depleting our non-renewable resources: groundwater, soil, and oil.

argumentum 14y ago
70% of the earth is covered by water. If need be we can always desalinate with nuclear energy. Soil? Are you serious? 95% of soil depletion has happened in the last century, true, but we only discovered that soil can be depleted as a result. We also discovered that it can be replenished, and how to accomplish this.
- Alex3917 14y ago
  "If need be we can always desalinate with nuclear energy." While I have no doubt that renewable energy, nuclear, and desalination technology will all continue to improve, it's hard to believe that desalinating enough water to grow food for 10 billion people will ever be possible. I have no doubt that civilization will be possible at some level, but the claim of the original article is that things will continue to get better for the 5 billion people who are going to be at the bottom of the pyramid, which seems dubious. Also, while soil can be renewed, it isn't currently happening. And while it could happen at some point in the future, when we get hit by the triple threat of no more cheap water and oil-based fertilizer it's hard to believe that we're going to be able to fix all three problems at once without first going through a period of mass starvation and/or another world war. It's certainly possible that we'll rise to the challenge through a combination of new technology and competent leadership, but based on the way things are going currently it seems like an outside chance.
  - argumentum 14y ago
    It's certainly possible that we'll rise to the challenge through a combination of new technology and competent leadership... There you go, that's the beginning of optimism :)