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Garden variety malignant narcissism (my armchair psych opinion but grew up in this dynamic). It's acting out in response to their deep shame (the root thing tha

by rglover 7mo ago

Garden variety malignant narcissism (my armchair psych opinion but grew up in this dynamic). It's acting out in response to their deep shame (the root thing that all of the narcissistic behavior is desperate to hide). They can't admit they're wrong, otherwise their entire psychological world collapses. Coincidentally, that's also why it's so terrifying to see so many of these types in power. While most narcissists are mostly hot air and talk, occasionally, you get a legitimate wildcard that's destructive in difficult to repair ways (sometimes leaving nothing but smoldering rubble).

simpaticoder 7mo ago
Yes, and here's an interesting (and clear) example that shows that narcissism is a complex delusion that puts one's own fault squarely into a blind spot that cannot be perceived. I watched this and, for the first time in my life, felt a huge pang of compassion and sadness for those that suffer from it, even though they make life more difficult for everyone else. They are broken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqRIw5FICAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqRIw5FICAs A Kent State professor calls 911 because she can't get into her building to pee; she is clearly drunk; they give her every opportunity to get a ride home; she refuses and is eventually detained. Later she goes to the police department to get an apology from the officers involved. It was, to me, a shocking example of the narcissistic delusion, with stakes low-enough that one could focus on that and not the side-effects.
bitexploder 7mo ago
It is very interesting when you explore the neurological mechanics of this. A narcissist is rigid thinking dialed up to 11. It is essential a special and pathological “skill” their brains have learned. They do not have to update their priors or spend metabolic energy on almost anything their life. Their brain figured out the best way to survive and conserve energy was to avoid costly updates to their beliefs. Repeated over years and that system becomes deeply myelinated, a core identity. Unwinding that is a feat. Some people just have a more narrow set of rigid beliefs (e.g. religion, work skills, etc).
- mursu 7mo ago
  Agreed on your neuro take. It would seem that the rigidness is somewhat reinforced by the pervasive mechanism of digital feedback. As we now can see clips of stupid behavior being propagated online as easily as opening our eyes and tap a screen, the rigid behavior of an overt narcissist is now on display as a model for lesser equipped minds to absorb. The narcissist acquires a visually recognizable position of power through their actions, and this makes them highly desirable by those lacking control in their own life. The audience is global... And where the terrain is fertile.. the said audience also votes for their model.
  - bitexploder 7mo ago
    Social media is a toxic stew of identity based narrative reinforcement. Custom tailored to your specific, and I mean really specific, narratives. Does your identity revolve around religion A, hobby B and C, political views D? The algorithm will feed you exact pro-narrative pro-identity content. Did you react to the rage bait style things that we tried out on you? Awesome, now you are getting even more toxic nonsense streamed to your brain. It is genuinely scary. It just creates and strongly reinforces it. It is like we created a way to chunk memetic hazard into a series of small unidentifiable pieces. The net result? No one would be like "If you open this door you become an extremist and will have really rigid identity beliefs" who would open that. But clicking thumbs up or like on a "funny" political meme? Sure why not.
    - mursu 7mo ago
      so .. i guess.. if technology is meant to trigger our impulses then the world is slowly going towards the direction dictated by the impulses that form the largest cluster, pulling the whole environment in their direction. Just like a carriage with many horses that cannot be controlled if a group of horses decide to pull right and go into the ditch. So we will have to endure the fall of everything just for the impulsive unevolved people to learn their lesson. Kind of a grim view... but seems like it right now.
      - 7mo ago
enoint 7mo ago
Trump’s shame, I wonder, might be more rare than the garden variety. Nothing seemed to endear him to Manhattan elites. Not the pro wrestling or bragging like an 80s rapper. I wonder how that important internalized shame could change. There seems to be something about Pres. Obama mocking him during the Correspondents Dinner. A venue for mockery, sure, but a black man mocked a son of Fred Trump.

by rglover 7mo ago

simpaticoder 7mo ago

Yes, and here's an interesting (and clear) example that shows that narcissism is a complex delusion that puts one's own fault squarely into a blind spot that cannot be perceived. I watched this and, for the first time in my life, felt a huge pang of compassion and sadness for those that suffer from it, even though they make life more difficult for everyone else. They are broken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqRIw5FICAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqRIw5FICAs A Kent State professor calls 911 because she can't get into her building to pee; she is clearly drunk; they give her every opportunity to get a ride home; she refuses and is eventually detained. Later she goes to the police department to get an apology from the officers involved. It was, to me, a shocking example of the narcissistic delusion, with stakes low-enough that one could focus on that and not the side-effects.

bitexploder 7mo ago

It is very interesting when you explore the neurological mechanics of this. A narcissist is rigid thinking dialed up to 11. It is essential a special and pathological “skill” their brains have learned. They do not have to update their priors or spend metabolic energy on almost anything their life. Their brain figured out the best way to survive and conserve energy was to avoid costly updates to their beliefs. Repeated over years and that system becomes deeply myelinated, a core identity. Unwinding that is a feat. Some people just have a more narrow set of rigid beliefs (e.g. religion, work skills, etc).

mursu 7mo ago
Agreed on your neuro take. It would seem that the rigidness is somewhat reinforced by the pervasive mechanism of digital feedback. As we now can see clips of stupid behavior being propagated online as easily as opening our eyes and tap a screen, the rigid behavior of an overt narcissist is now on display as a model for lesser equipped minds to absorb. The narcissist acquires a visually recognizable position of power through their actions, and this makes them highly desirable by those lacking control in their own life. The audience is global... And where the terrain is fertile.. the said audience also votes for their model.
- bitexploder 7mo ago
  Social media is a toxic stew of identity based narrative reinforcement. Custom tailored to your specific, and I mean really specific, narratives. Does your identity revolve around religion A, hobby B and C, political views D? The algorithm will feed you exact pro-narrative pro-identity content. Did you react to the rage bait style things that we tried out on you? Awesome, now you are getting even more toxic nonsense streamed to your brain. It is genuinely scary. It just creates and strongly reinforces it. It is like we created a way to chunk memetic hazard into a series of small unidentifiable pieces. The net result? No one would be like "If you open this door you become an extremist and will have really rigid identity beliefs" who would open that. But clicking thumbs up or like on a "funny" political meme? Sure why not.
  - mursu 7mo ago
    so .. i guess.. if technology is meant to trigger our impulses then the world is slowly going towards the direction dictated by the impulses that form the largest cluster, pulling the whole environment in their direction. Just like a carriage with many horses that cannot be controlled if a group of horses decide to pull right and go into the ditch. So we will have to endure the fall of everything just for the impulsive unevolved people to learn their lesson. Kind of a grim view... but seems like it right now.
    - 7mo ago

enoint 7mo ago

Trump’s shame, I wonder, might be more rare than the garden variety. Nothing seemed to endear him to Manhattan elites. Not the pro wrestling or bragging like an 80s rapper. I wonder how that important internalized shame could change. There seems to be something about Pres. Obama mocking him during the Correspondents Dinner. A venue for mockery, sure, but a black man mocked a son of Fred Trump.