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I do wonder how people can be satisfied with automatic music playlists. I was entertained by this for maybe a few hours when Pandora was new, but they all seem

I do wonder how people can be satisfied with automatic music playlists. I was entertained by this for maybe a few hours when Pandora was new, but they all seemingly always devolve into either playing weird shit, playing the same 50 songs over and over again, or playing whatever new release shilled crap the record companies are paying to promote. Yet it seems like everybody else these days is a Spotify addict. I guess most people are fine with it.

Gigachad 8mo ago
My observations are that the average person is bothered by the slop of modern playlists full of AI music, but they don’t care enough to do anything about it. Personally I dropped playlists long ago for YouTube dj sets which are a million times better than Spotify’s AI dj. Some of this is not a tech failing but the DJs have access to unreleased tracks, their own private edits, and are more willing to do more bold things. The AI DJ will never drop a surprise change that makes the crowd scream.
ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
Pandora is the only one that even remotely came close to something worthwhile, for me. It usually picked stuff that I wanted to hear; and that was a decade ago. Every other selection service regularly fed me garbage. Pandora was worthless, though, because of their skip limit (even in the paid version). Even with its effectiveness, it would still feed me junk. This guy is a classical music guy, though, and all the pickers suck, for that. Classical has been treated badly, forever. I am extremely disappointed that Apple segregated classical into its own app, because I have always enjoyed mixing it in with my regular music. One thing about classical music, is that every performance is a “cover.” Who performs the piece is just as important as who wrote it. None of the selection services seem to understand that. MP3 tags are pretty much worthless. They are incredibly limited, and I don’t know why they have never been improved.
- kaelwd 8mo ago
  What would you add to MP3 tags? ID3v2 already has separate fields for section/title/performer/conductor/composer/lyricist, it isn't the spec's fault Spotify doesn't use them.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
    It's the "pick any one" nature. You have to classify every title as one type. How would we classify Zappa, or Secret Chiefs 3? Are they jazz, alternative (a worthless category), rock, pop, heavy metal, comedy? Depending on what you listen to, it could be any one of them. Also, each song could be in multiple categories. Boz Skaggs was known for disco-style pop, but he was an outstanding blues performer, and many of his songs reflect that mix. This is really a music industry problem, and software just reflects that. The bug is really in the Requirements phase.
    - AlyssaRowan 8mo ago
      Well, it's less of a technology problem than it is an industry one. You can have multiple entries in the genre list and they're freeform, for example Ambient;Electronic, in both ID3v2.3 and ID3v2.4. For Vorbis Comments, you have multiple GENRE= tags. Some players support this. In my interactions with distributors, it seems streaming services tend to support up to two genre classifications; though they're pretty outdated and general (even more general and dated than the Winamp genre list). I don't think they use the metadata presented much in the classification; in fact Spotify does its own estimation of 'energy' and other subjective emotions using various classifier algorithms.
  - vintermann 8mo ago
    It's the record companies/publishers which don't use them. I don't think I know one record company which reports metadata well.
- paradox460 8mo ago
  I've fallen back to keeping my classical collection on my Plex server. Many of the recordings are ones I've personally participated in the performance of, and others are just ones that I prefer. Elgar performed by London philharmonic with Daniel Barenboim is what I prefer, and when I hear a different recording, like the Berlin Symphony one that Spotify likes to trot out, it feels wrong. It drags where it's not supposed to and speeds at other times. It's not wrong, it's just not what I like
staticassertion 8mo ago
I listen to a lot of old music - 1950s, 1960s. I don't really have peers who listen to it so discoverability is a real issue. Pandora was amazing for me ~20 years ago, it introduced me to songs I never would have heard. Especially in the 50s you had a lot of "one hit wonders" so just listening to a band wasn't a great way to find other songs that I would like. I don't really use Spotify so I can't compare but Pandora was awesome. I've found Youtube playlists to be the best replacement so far.
- defrost 8mo ago
  The old stuff is the good stuff alright, (1930s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLbaOLWjpc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLbaOLWjpc (1950s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6isIPytpk40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6isIPytpk40 (1960s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qssa6ec7faQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qssa6ec7faQ
  - mikkupikku 8mo ago
    That New Order cover is tight, thank you for this.
  - majkinetor 8mo ago
    Good stuff in any time, just harder to find: (2025) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hPNPInXh0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hPNPInXh0 (2024) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-c-9G52jU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-c-9G52jU (2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C1EDbkl2CU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C1EDbkl2CU (2025) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvcNvVZl9AA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvcNvVZl9AA (2022) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr2sx-HHTBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr2sx-HHTBw
    - heraldgeezer 8mo ago
      >just harder to find But this is the problem. Before, people where naturally exposed to classical and jazz and OSTs etc. This is the problem with current society.
    - 8mo ago
myrak 8mo ago
[dead]
thaumasiotes 8mo ago
I've found a lot of great music through Pandora. It's very miss-or-miss; you need to be willing to thumb down 95% of what Pandora thinks you'll like. But with enough care, it's a good discovery channel.
vulkoingim 8mo ago
I've been working on and off on something [1] that tries to address this problem through somewhat manual curation. You choose what genres you're interested in, and get auto updated playlists created from your music library. I have a few other experimental features in the pipeline that will expand the music selection, but they are not there yet. [1] https://riffradar.org/ https://riffradar.org/
vintermann 8mo ago
Spotify's discover weekly was genuinely good when it first came. It was on another level from other recommendation services. Maybe 90% of the music I've bought on Bandcamp, I would never have known about if it wasn't for discover weekly (Bandcamp's own recommendation/discovery features are lousy). But somehow, probably from a combination of rights owners gaming it and Spotify gaming it, DW is a pale shadow of its former self.

Gigachad 8mo ago

My observations are that the average person is bothered by the slop of modern playlists full of AI music, but they don’t care enough to do anything about it. Personally I dropped playlists long ago for YouTube dj sets which are a million times better than Spotify’s AI dj. Some of this is not a tech failing but the DJs have access to unreleased tracks, their own private edits, and are more willing to do more bold things. The AI DJ will never drop a surprise change that makes the crowd scream.

ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago

Pandora is the only one that even remotely came close to something worthwhile, for me. It usually picked stuff that I wanted to hear; and that was a decade ago. Every other selection service regularly fed me garbage. Pandora was worthless, though, because of their skip limit (even in the paid version). Even with its effectiveness, it would still feed me junk. This guy is a classical music guy, though, and all the pickers suck, for that. Classical has been treated badly, forever. I am extremely disappointed that Apple segregated classical into its own app, because I have always enjoyed mixing it in with my regular music. One thing about classical music, is that every performance is a “cover.” Who performs the piece is just as important as who wrote it. None of the selection services seem to understand that. MP3 tags are pretty much worthless. They are incredibly limited, and I don’t know why they have never been improved.

kaelwd 8mo ago
What would you add to MP3 tags? ID3v2 already has separate fields for section/title/performer/conductor/composer/lyricist, it isn't the spec's fault Spotify doesn't use them.
- ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
  It's the "pick any one" nature. You have to classify every title as one type. How would we classify Zappa, or Secret Chiefs 3? Are they jazz, alternative (a worthless category), rock, pop, heavy metal, comedy? Depending on what you listen to, it could be any one of them. Also, each song could be in multiple categories. Boz Skaggs was known for disco-style pop, but he was an outstanding blues performer, and many of his songs reflect that mix. This is really a music industry problem, and software just reflects that. The bug is really in the Requirements phase.
  - AlyssaRowan 8mo ago
    Well, it's less of a technology problem than it is an industry one. You can have multiple entries in the genre list and they're freeform, for example Ambient;Electronic, in both ID3v2.3 and ID3v2.4. For Vorbis Comments, you have multiple GENRE= tags. Some players support this. In my interactions with distributors, it seems streaming services tend to support up to two genre classifications; though they're pretty outdated and general (even more general and dated than the Winamp genre list). I don't think they use the metadata presented much in the classification; in fact Spotify does its own estimation of 'energy' and other subjective emotions using various classifier algorithms.
- vintermann 8mo ago
  It's the record companies/publishers which don't use them. I don't think I know one record company which reports metadata well.
paradox460 8mo ago
I've fallen back to keeping my classical collection on my Plex server. Many of the recordings are ones I've personally participated in the performance of, and others are just ones that I prefer. Elgar performed by London philharmonic with Daniel Barenboim is what I prefer, and when I hear a different recording, like the Berlin Symphony one that Spotify likes to trot out, it feels wrong. It drags where it's not supposed to and speeds at other times. It's not wrong, it's just not what I like

staticassertion 8mo ago

I listen to a lot of old music - 1950s, 1960s. I don't really have peers who listen to it so discoverability is a real issue. Pandora was amazing for me ~20 years ago, it introduced me to songs I never would have heard. Especially in the 50s you had a lot of "one hit wonders" so just listening to a band wasn't a great way to find other songs that I would like. I don't really use Spotify so I can't compare but Pandora was awesome. I've found Youtube playlists to be the best replacement so far.

defrost 8mo ago
The old stuff is the good stuff alright, (1930s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLbaOLWjpc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLbaOLWjpc (1950s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6isIPytpk40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6isIPytpk40 (1960s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qssa6ec7faQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qssa6ec7faQ
- mikkupikku 8mo ago
  That New Order cover is tight, thank you for this.
- majkinetor 8mo ago
  Good stuff in any time, just harder to find: (2025) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hPNPInXh0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8hPNPInXh0 (2024) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-c-9G52jU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-c-9G52jU (2015) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C1EDbkl2CU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C1EDbkl2CU (2025) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvcNvVZl9AA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvcNvVZl9AA (2022) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr2sx-HHTBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr2sx-HHTBw
  - heraldgeezer 8mo ago
    >just harder to find But this is the problem. Before, people where naturally exposed to classical and jazz and OSTs etc. This is the problem with current society.
  - 8mo ago

myrak 8mo ago

[dead]

thaumasiotes 8mo ago

I've found a lot of great music through Pandora. It's very miss-or-miss; you need to be willing to thumb down 95% of what Pandora thinks you'll like. But with enough care, it's a good discovery channel.

vulkoingim 8mo ago

I've been working on and off on something [1] that tries to address this problem through somewhat manual curation. You choose what genres you're interested in, and get auto updated playlists created from your music library. I have a few other experimental features in the pipeline that will expand the music selection, but they are not there yet. [1] https://riffradar.org/ https://riffradar.org/

vintermann 8mo ago

Spotify's discover weekly was genuinely good when it first came. It was on another level from other recommendation services. Maybe 90% of the music I've bought on Bandcamp, I would never have known about if it wasn't for discover weekly (Bandcamp's own recommendation/discovery features are lousy). But somehow, probably from a combination of rights owners gaming it and Spotify gaming it, DW is a pale shadow of its former self.