4 ms·

I would argue the empire already collapsed, about a year ago when DOGE was tasked with killing every form of soft power that were put in place to present the co

I would argue the empire already collapsed, about a year ago when DOGE was tasked with killing every form of soft power that were put in place to present the country in the best possible light across the world. Even with tons of talented and well-intentioned people and everyone fully aligned to re-build everything broken, it'd take decades to rebuild that trust that was lost in a matter of weeks.

SideburnsOfDoom 7mo ago
> It'd take decades to rebuild that trust that was lost in a matter of weeks. There is some truth to this. Other examples of crossing the line and breaking long-term trust would be: To Canada: Statements about Canada last year. To Europe: The idiocy around Greenland earlier this year To the Middle East: Current events.
- input_sh 7mo ago
  If I may go a step further in history: tearing up the JCPOA (AKA the Iran deal) was like shouting from a megaphone "the US word means nothing now". Even the Palestine situation could've been predicted 6 years before Oct 7th when the US was the very first nation to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, before 5 others followed (none of them "significant"). Things have definitely accelerated in the second term, but it's not like there weren't signs that political leaders definitely noticed were disruptive, even if the wider public weren't as aware at the time.
- MSFT_Edging 7mo ago
  I do wonder how far certain acts could go in rebuilding the trust. Ie real actual legal liability. Line up anyone who did insider trading, the doge guys, the big mouths in the big house, and put them through a zero tolerance military tribunal. No bullshit kangaroo court where they're let off with a slap on the wrist because they're rich. I mean strip every last one of these motherfuckers of everything they're worth. 180 the kangaroo court. Make a public mockery of them. Posters everywhere. Think of it as a peace offering for the rest of the world. We could even include the war on terror guys in there, all the liars who claimed WMDs could go to the same federal prison. No cushions.
  - b3ing 7mo ago
    The Supreme Court doesn’t care. That’s the #1 sign the country is over, it’d take a miracle to get out of this decline. And then everyone is just going to be pardoned. There were no ethics baked into the constitution, that was the fatal flaw, even businesses have such things to prevent lawsuits or internal drama or issues
  - xienze 7mo ago
    So your answer to restoring trust is to create a kangaroo court in the opposite direction?
    - MSFT_Edging 7mo ago
      "Hey sorry all these guys completely hijacked our checks and balances in their favor, we're going to remove them completely from societal circulation and try again"
  - intended 7mo ago
    These would be table stakes. They would only indicate that America is moving in another direction than currently. The rest of the world would then take a wait and watch approach. Besides, even getting to that point would need to mean that this situation would not arise again.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 7mo ago
      > The rest of the world would then take a wait and watch approach. Agreed, as I have said before (1) even if the next administration is very different, that has happened before in 2020-2024. The lesson that the USA just is a country that does this from time to time. Expecting it to happen a third time is reasonable. Wait and watch would be an appropriate response. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46217131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46217131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46837147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46837147
pocksuppet 7mo ago
The first sign many Roman citizens had that their empire had collapsed is when a bridge near them fell down and nobody showed up to repair it. America's been in that mode for a long time.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- giardini 7mo ago
  That is your local city and county, not the "American empire". And your judgement in choosing where you live!8))
  - pocksuppet 7mo ago
    Is your local city and county not part of the empire? If the empire doesn't have any cities and counties, it must have already collapsed.
  - dh2022 7mo ago
    Take a drive on an interstate highways. Whenever I take an Uber/Lyft to the airport I ask the usually (more like 100%) foreign born driver to compare the highway (I5) and the airport (SeaTac) with the same from his country. The comparison is bad for the US. US is a third world country, but Americans do no want to admit that.
    - xienze 7mo ago
      > I ask the usually (more like 100%) foreign born driver to compare the highway (I5) and the airport (SeaTac) with the same from his country. The comparison is bad for the US. > US is a third world country, but Americans do no want to admit that. So why do so many people want to keep coming here?
      - dh2022 7mo ago
        The Uber drivers I talked have their families back home. That is how we end up comparing airports. That tells you where third world people see their future.
JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
> would argue the empire already collapsed The republic may be collapsing. The empire comes after. The rich benefit if we transition to an autocratic empire based on American military might.
- samrus 7mo ago
  When the roman republic collapsed, they were still at their upwards inflection point. Ceasar was still on a roll. They hadnt peaked yet. This feels more like when the empire was in the early stages of coming down from its peak. I think the roman republic to empire transition doesnt have much to do with the trajectory of rome at all. Their institutions were still strong. With america, her institutional knowledge is being stripped apart. Thats hard to pull up from
  - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > This feels more like when the empire was in the early stages of coming down from its peak Based on which contemporaneous source? Personally, this feels like Cicero. Not Caligula.
- frm88 7mo ago
  ... American military might... Trump urges US allies to send warships to Strait of Hormuz as Iran vows to retaliate https://apnews.com/article/iran-iraq-us-trump-march-15-2026-9bbed3c906146844be08fdfd02595754 https://apnews.com/article/iran-iraq-us-trump-march-15-2026-...
specialist 7mo ago
IMHO Pax Americana ended (passed the point of no return) with GWB. Iraq, 2008 financial crisis, SCOTUS picks, unitary executive, extraordinary rendition, breaking of weapons treaties (nuke testing, bio & chem warfare), abandoning peace between Isreal & Palestinians, etc, etc. Forfieted any remaining goodwill. (Post 9/11, It would have been so easy to choose the other path.) Trump just made it undeniable.

SideburnsOfDoom 7mo ago

> It'd take decades to rebuild that trust that was lost in a matter of weeks. There is some truth to this. Other examples of crossing the line and breaking long-term trust would be: To Canada: Statements about Canada last year. To Europe: The idiocy around Greenland earlier this year To the Middle East: Current events.

input_sh 7mo ago
If I may go a step further in history: tearing up the JCPOA (AKA the Iran deal) was like shouting from a megaphone "the US word means nothing now". Even the Palestine situation could've been predicted 6 years before Oct 7th when the US was the very first nation to move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, before 5 others followed (none of them "significant"). Things have definitely accelerated in the second term, but it's not like there weren't signs that political leaders definitely noticed were disruptive, even if the wider public weren't as aware at the time.
MSFT_Edging 7mo ago
I do wonder how far certain acts could go in rebuilding the trust. Ie real actual legal liability. Line up anyone who did insider trading, the doge guys, the big mouths in the big house, and put them through a zero tolerance military tribunal. No bullshit kangaroo court where they're let off with a slap on the wrist because they're rich. I mean strip every last one of these motherfuckers of everything they're worth. 180 the kangaroo court. Make a public mockery of them. Posters everywhere. Think of it as a peace offering for the rest of the world. We could even include the war on terror guys in there, all the liars who claimed WMDs could go to the same federal prison. No cushions.
- b3ing 7mo ago
  The Supreme Court doesn’t care. That’s the #1 sign the country is over, it’d take a miracle to get out of this decline. And then everyone is just going to be pardoned. There were no ethics baked into the constitution, that was the fatal flaw, even businesses have such things to prevent lawsuits or internal drama or issues
- xienze 7mo ago
  So your answer to restoring trust is to create a kangaroo court in the opposite direction?
  - MSFT_Edging 7mo ago
    "Hey sorry all these guys completely hijacked our checks and balances in their favor, we're going to remove them completely from societal circulation and try again"
- intended 7mo ago
  These would be table stakes. They would only indicate that America is moving in another direction than currently. The rest of the world would then take a wait and watch approach. Besides, even getting to that point would need to mean that this situation would not arise again.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 7mo ago
    > The rest of the world would then take a wait and watch approach. Agreed, as I have said before (1) even if the next administration is very different, that has happened before in 2020-2024. The lesson that the USA just is a country that does this from time to time. Expecting it to happen a third time is reasonable. Wait and watch would be an appropriate response. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46217131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46217131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46837147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46837147

pocksuppet 7mo ago

The first sign many Roman citizens had that their empire had collapsed is when a bridge near them fell down and nobody showed up to repair it. America's been in that mode for a long time.

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
giardini 7mo ago
That is your local city and county, not the "American empire". And your judgement in choosing where you live!8))
- pocksuppet 7mo ago
  Is your local city and county not part of the empire? If the empire doesn't have any cities and counties, it must have already collapsed.
- dh2022 7mo ago
  Take a drive on an interstate highways. Whenever I take an Uber/Lyft to the airport I ask the usually (more like 100%) foreign born driver to compare the highway (I5) and the airport (SeaTac) with the same from his country. The comparison is bad for the US. US is a third world country, but Americans do no want to admit that.
  - xienze 7mo ago
    > I ask the usually (more like 100%) foreign born driver to compare the highway (I5) and the airport (SeaTac) with the same from his country. The comparison is bad for the US. > US is a third world country, but Americans do no want to admit that. So why do so many people want to keep coming here?
    - dh2022 7mo ago
      The Uber drivers I talked have their families back home. That is how we end up comparing airports. That tells you where third world people see their future.

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago

> would argue the empire already collapsed The republic may be collapsing. The empire comes after. The rich benefit if we transition to an autocratic empire based on American military might.

samrus 7mo ago
When the roman republic collapsed, they were still at their upwards inflection point. Ceasar was still on a roll. They hadnt peaked yet. This feels more like when the empire was in the early stages of coming down from its peak. I think the roman republic to empire transition doesnt have much to do with the trajectory of rome at all. Their institutions were still strong. With america, her institutional knowledge is being stripped apart. Thats hard to pull up from
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > This feels more like when the empire was in the early stages of coming down from its peak Based on which contemporaneous source? Personally, this feels like Cicero. Not Caligula.
frm88 7mo ago
... American military might... Trump urges US allies to send warships to Strait of Hormuz as Iran vows to retaliate https://apnews.com/article/iran-iraq-us-trump-march-15-2026-9bbed3c906146844be08fdfd02595754 https://apnews.com/article/iran-iraq-us-trump-march-15-2026-...

specialist 7mo ago

IMHO Pax Americana ended (passed the point of no return) with GWB. Iraq, 2008 financial crisis, SCOTUS picks, unitary executive, extraordinary rendition, breaking of weapons treaties (nuke testing, bio & chem warfare), abandoning peace between Isreal & Palestinians, etc, etc. Forfieted any remaining goodwill. (Post 9/11, It would have been so easy to choose the other path.) Trump just made it undeniable.