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That is naive. 'they need a real government that protects people's rights' and this government will magically materialize out of thin air and institute an islan

by jkman 7mo ago

That is naive. 'they need a real government that protects people's rights' and this government will magically materialize out of thin air and institute an island paradise, right? You can't even meaningfully discuss a real 'military' in Haiti, it is a failed state with minimal control of even their capital city.

mmooss 7mo ago
> naive Exactly the words used by the enemies of freedom: 'It's naive!' It's predictable. Nobody said anything about easy. Murdering civilians is easy, I suppose, but not a route to a solution nor an acceptable means.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- HuaraHuara2 7mo ago
  America has always been blessed with great geography, natural resources, an educated populace, and an inventive, optimistic spirit. That is to say, Americans have never suffered and as such, cannot comprehend suffering. Thus Americans are blind and naive to injustices they have never faced.
  - mmooss 7mo ago
    It's been embraced and is highly successful all over the world.
01100011 7mo ago
This is a very common view among people who have grown up in the west. Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise." It's strange because the dominant religion in the west has as a fundamental tenet that people are inherently bad. But I digress... Unless one is some form of deist who believes there is a top-tier authority who is active in bending the fate of the world, there is no reason to believe rights are natural or exist in any way absent the will of the powerful. It's a sad conclusion but the only one I can come up with after 50 trips around the sun.
- HuaraHuara2 7mo ago
  This is an extraordinarily realistic take, I imagine you've traveled well to reach to that conclusion. The West is simply unwilling to concede that nothing is given in nature, as they have never truly dealt with the conniving spirit in the hearts of most men.
- mmooss 7mo ago
  Yet universal rights have taken over the world, and are embraced by all the most free, most wealthy, most safe countries; it is the foundation of their governments. They are the most succesful governments in history with no others even close to competing, and have done that for many generations. And now that universal rights have been weakened, the freedom, prosperity, and safety of those countries is weakening. > Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise." That is a strawperson. Certainly nobody says 'spontaneously', and democratic goverments are constructed carefully to prevent abuses of power. Naivete is swallowing the bait of fascists, hook, line and sinker: That freedom is somehow impossible, that people are only evil (instead of a mix of good and bad, either of which we can embrace and strengthen), and we must have a strongman. How convenient for the wannabe dictator.
  - cindyllm 7mo ago
    [dead]

by jkman 7mo ago

mmooss 7mo ago

> naive Exactly the words used by the enemies of freedom: 'It's naive!' It's predictable. Nobody said anything about easy. Murdering civilians is easy, I suppose, but not a route to a solution nor an acceptable means.

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
HuaraHuara2 7mo ago
America has always been blessed with great geography, natural resources, an educated populace, and an inventive, optimistic spirit. That is to say, Americans have never suffered and as such, cannot comprehend suffering. Thus Americans are blind and naive to injustices they have never faced.
- mmooss 7mo ago
  It's been embraced and is highly successful all over the world.

01100011 7mo ago

This is a very common view among people who have grown up in the west. Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise." It's strange because the dominant religion in the west has as a fundamental tenet that people are inherently bad. But I digress... Unless one is some form of deist who believes there is a top-tier authority who is active in bending the fate of the world, there is no reason to believe rights are natural or exist in any way absent the will of the powerful. It's a sad conclusion but the only one I can come up with after 50 trips around the sun.

HuaraHuara2 7mo ago
This is an extraordinarily realistic take, I imagine you've traveled well to reach to that conclusion. The West is simply unwilling to concede that nothing is given in nature, as they have never truly dealt with the conniving spirit in the hearts of most men.
mmooss 7mo ago
Yet universal rights have taken over the world, and are embraced by all the most free, most wealthy, most safe countries; it is the foundation of their governments. They are the most succesful governments in history with no others even close to competing, and have done that for many generations. And now that universal rights have been weakened, the freedom, prosperity, and safety of those countries is weakening. > Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise." That is a strawperson. Certainly nobody says 'spontaneously', and democratic goverments are constructed carefully to prevent abuses of power. Naivete is swallowing the bait of fascists, hook, line and sinker: That freedom is somehow impossible, that people are only evil (instead of a mix of good and bad, either of which we can embrace and strengthen), and we must have a strongman. How convenient for the wannabe dictator.
- cindyllm 7mo ago
  [dead]