3 ms·

To whomever is downmodding theklub, please explain why. It reads perfectly rational and reasonable to me.

pavelludiq 18y ago
Hardcore apple fans. There like: oh no, cheap macs! Im like: cool, cheap macs! p.s. Downmod me to if you want to(this is a rather trollish comment, so as a good HN member, i encourage you to do so, i have enough karma to burn, but do so because i deserve it, not because i hate apple).
- raganwald 18y ago
  I'm not downmodding you, but I will suggest that there is a difference between "Cheap PCs that run OS X" and "Cheap Macs." Apple tries to ship a certain complete Macintosh experience. Certain types of cheap PC would undermine this experience even if they run OS X. So, I think that a "Cheap PC running OS X" might not provide the same experience as a Macintosh. Is this a good thing? Should the market choose what they want? I don't know. But I can see the argument that such a device would not be a "Cheap Mac."
  - pavelludiq 18y ago
    First, it doesn't mater what you call it. Second, Its not like people buying cheap macs are spoiling the user experience of the real mac users.Thankfully most apple users are not assholes and they really don't care that there are pc's running OSX that don't deliver the mac experience. Its not like somebody is "being a pc" at them, right? So the answer to your question "Should the market choose what they want?" is: absolutely. Is it a good thing? A pc running OSX is probably not worse than a linux box, or a winpc, so its probably not bad, unless you're apple, or you are somehow offended by cheap(in the quality sense) computers.
    - raganwald 18y ago
      it doesn't mater what you call it. Yes it does. If it isn't equivalent to a Macintosh but you call it a Macintosh, you dilute the Macintosh brand equity. That's exactly why companies defend their trade marks so zealously.
      - pavelludiq 18y ago
        Ok, that sounds reasonable. I just wanted to get that "name" thing out of the way, so i can express my other point.
      - redrobot5050 18y ago
        Not to mention that everyone except the most die-hard mac fans will buy a cheap OS X for their next home PC, and it'll cannibalize Apple's sales, which means they will have to cannibalize their R&D. So unlicensed OS X boxen may not be "theft" but it does imply revenue lost. That said, if you want a "cheap OS X box" search Ebay for "MacBook Nano". People are selling MSI Winds with hacked copies of leopard for about $450.
  - omouse 18y ago
    >Certain types of cheap PC would undermine this experience even if they run OS X. Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? The cheapest hardware that you can buy at any retailer is pretty good. Some people don't care about the experience that Apple tries to sell, they want a different experience. Why should Apple be allowed to lock people into a particular type of hardware?
    - raganwald 18y ago
      Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? The cheapest hardware that you can buy at any retailer is pretty good. the hidden assumption in your statement is that "pretty good" PCs are interchangeable for this application. This is not true. In another comment there is the suggestion that a certain type of cheap PC would be loaded down with trial software. That would undermine the experience even if the PC was functionally identical to a Macintosh. Another example would be the choice of cards and drivers. Apple have the luxury of managing compatibility with a very limited number of hardware components. A "pretty good" cheap PC might have components with equivalent quality compoents that are not compatible with OS X as it is currently shipped, so they would have to write their own drivers. Would these drivers be as good as the existing ones or would they be buggy? Would Apple work as hard to ensure that future versions of OS X would maintain backwards compatibility with other people's buggy code as Microsoft claim to do? I think it's entirely possible for there to be cheap PCs that are "pretty good" running Linux or Windows but still undermine the experience of a Macintosh. Some people don't care about the experience that Apple tries to sell, they want a different experience. Why should Apple be allowed to lock people into a particular type of hardware? Now come on, please re-read what you wrote a few times and then answer the question for yourself. When was the last time someone complained to you that Apple forced them to buy the Macintosh experience? Do you need me to jump on a plane and take you shopping in your town for computers that offer different experiences? Or come to Toronto, let's have dinner at "The Nose," a nice restaurant near my home. One of the items on their menu is "Spaghetti with Scotty's Giant Meatball," a single large meatball. We can ask for the traditional multiple small meatballs, but they do not serve that dish. Should we complain that they are locking us into giant meatballs? Or should we simply walk down the street to Casa di Georgio, where they serve the dish we want? Apple sells what it sells. Dell sells what it sells. If people want a Dell, let them buy a Dell.
- GHFigs 18y ago
  Next time, don't post.
  - pavelludiq 18y ago
    Yes, i appreciate your advice, but i think that next time i have the need to express an emotion, i will at least try to make it non offensive, instead of not expressing it. My post was a response for the fact that some perfectly valid comments were downvoted. It was not a good response, for which i apologize.

Hardcore apple fans. There like: oh no, cheap macs! Im like: cool, cheap macs! p.s. Downmod me to if you want to(this is a rather trollish comment, so as a good HN member, i encourage you to do so, i have enough karma to burn, but do so because i deserve it, not because i hate apple).

raganwald 18y ago
I'm not downmodding you, but I will suggest that there is a difference between "Cheap PCs that run OS X" and "Cheap Macs." Apple tries to ship a certain complete Macintosh experience. Certain types of cheap PC would undermine this experience even if they run OS X. So, I think that a "Cheap PC running OS X" might not provide the same experience as a Macintosh. Is this a good thing? Should the market choose what they want? I don't know. But I can see the argument that such a device would not be a "Cheap Mac."
- pavelludiq 18y ago
  First, it doesn't mater what you call it. Second, Its not like people buying cheap macs are spoiling the user experience of the real mac users.Thankfully most apple users are not assholes and they really don't care that there are pc's running OSX that don't deliver the mac experience. Its not like somebody is "being a pc" at them, right? So the answer to your question "Should the market choose what they want?" is: absolutely. Is it a good thing? A pc running OSX is probably not worse than a linux box, or a winpc, so its probably not bad, unless you're apple, or you are somehow offended by cheap(in the quality sense) computers.
  - raganwald 18y ago
    it doesn't mater what you call it. Yes it does. If it isn't equivalent to a Macintosh but you call it a Macintosh, you dilute the Macintosh brand equity. That's exactly why companies defend their trade marks so zealously.
    - pavelludiq 18y ago
      Ok, that sounds reasonable. I just wanted to get that "name" thing out of the way, so i can express my other point.
    - redrobot5050 18y ago
      Not to mention that everyone except the most die-hard mac fans will buy a cheap OS X for their next home PC, and it'll cannibalize Apple's sales, which means they will have to cannibalize their R&D. So unlicensed OS X boxen may not be "theft" but it does imply revenue lost. That said, if you want a "cheap OS X box" search Ebay for "MacBook Nano". People are selling MSI Winds with hacked copies of leopard for about $450.
- omouse 18y ago
  >Certain types of cheap PC would undermine this experience even if they run OS X. Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? The cheapest hardware that you can buy at any retailer is pretty good. Some people don't care about the experience that Apple tries to sell, they want a different experience. Why should Apple be allowed to lock people into a particular type of hardware?
  - raganwald 18y ago
    Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? The cheapest hardware that you can buy at any retailer is pretty good. the hidden assumption in your statement is that "pretty good" PCs are interchangeable for this application. This is not true. In another comment there is the suggestion that a certain type of cheap PC would be loaded down with trial software. That would undermine the experience even if the PC was functionally identical to a Macintosh. Another example would be the choice of cards and drivers. Apple have the luxury of managing compatibility with a very limited number of hardware components. A "pretty good" cheap PC might have components with equivalent quality compoents that are not compatible with OS X as it is currently shipped, so they would have to write their own drivers. Would these drivers be as good as the existing ones or would they be buggy? Would Apple work as hard to ensure that future versions of OS X would maintain backwards compatibility with other people's buggy code as Microsoft claim to do? I think it's entirely possible for there to be cheap PCs that are "pretty good" running Linux or Windows but still undermine the experience of a Macintosh. Some people don't care about the experience that Apple tries to sell, they want a different experience. Why should Apple be allowed to lock people into a particular type of hardware? Now come on, please re-read what you wrote a few times and then answer the question for yourself. When was the last time someone complained to you that Apple forced them to buy the Macintosh experience? Do you need me to jump on a plane and take you shopping in your town for computers that offer different experiences? Or come to Toronto, let's have dinner at "The Nose," a nice restaurant near my home. One of the items on their menu is "Spaghetti with Scotty's Giant Meatball," a single large meatball. We can ask for the traditional multiple small meatballs, but they do not serve that dish. Should we complain that they are locking us into giant meatballs? Or should we simply walk down the street to Casa di Georgio, where they serve the dish we want? Apple sells what it sells. Dell sells what it sells. If people want a Dell, let them buy a Dell.
GHFigs 18y ago
Next time, don't post.
- pavelludiq 18y ago
  Yes, i appreciate your advice, but i think that next time i have the need to express an emotion, i will at least try to make it non offensive, instead of not expressing it. My post was a response for the fact that some perfectly valid comments were downvoted. It was not a good response, for which i apologize.