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I think this is somewhat ignorant the wide variety of legitimately very decent Windows PC laptops available in the exact same $500-700 price range as the MacBoo

by dangus 7mo ago

I think this is somewhat ignorant the wide variety of legitimately very decent Windows PC laptops available in the exact same $500-700 price range as the MacBook Neo. Apple isn’t disrupting the industry here. Don’t buy into early influencer review hype. These reviewers don’t actually look at retail store pricing. Apple is just making a decision to go downmarket and making many of the same compromises as other cheap laptops, and some odd compromises that are unique to Apple’s machine: No haptic trackpad, no keyboard backlight, no Touch ID on the cheap model, lower-end screen, very small battery, tiny slow charger included, minimal and performance compromised I/O, below-par RAM, worse speakers/microphones, an old nothing-special processor. This is the exact same stuff that people have complained about for years with cheap laptops. The fact that the computer is made of aluminum is really a distraction from these facts. This idea that it’s Google versus Apple all over again is just not true. Windows is the dominant OS in the laptop space by far. Over 900 billion people in the world play PC games on windows, for example. If you look at Best Buy street pricing, what Apple has pulled off here is not that impressive. Let’s say you want the top end Neo model at $699. Spend $100 more at Best Buy and you’ll end up with a Yoga 7 machine with double the RAM, double the storage (1TB), 70Whr battery, and a very capable and efficient AMD Ryzen 7 AI 350 chip that has faster multicore and same or faster graphics performance. You’ll gain user-replaceable SSD, backlit keyboard, convertible OLED touch screen, digital pen support, more and faster USB ports, microSD slot, HDMI port, fast charger in the box, better speakers, WiFi 7, bigger screen in a more popular 14” size…it’s a better buy that will last years longer for only a slight price increase (or, spend less on the Ryzen 5 AI 340 variant ($680) if you’re okay with compromising GPU performance, which most people in this category are, and you’ll still end up with double the RAM of the Neo and 512GB storage at $20 less than Apple’s non-education store price) Seriously, give me a good reason to buy a Neo over a machine like this. What is actually better about the Mac objectively? https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot-pc-14-2k-oled-touchscreen-laptop-amd-ryzen-ai-5-340-2025-16gb-memory-512gb-ssd-seashell/JJGSHC5C4F/sku/6615841 https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot...

ewoodrich 7mo ago
Damn, an OLED screen at my go-to 14" screen size, and I can actually run Fedora on it? Going to have to do some more research on this thing...
- dangus 7mo ago
  In case you need it, this is the next model up with the 350 processor. If you care about graphics performance it has double the cores, and the bigger SSD as I mentioned: https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot-pc-14-2k-oled-touchscreen-laptop-amd-ryzen-ai-7-350-2025-16gb-memory-1tb-ssd-seashell/JJGSHC5C4H/sku/6615773 https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot... Review: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTe5kUYt9k https://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTe5kUYt9k
jen20 7mo ago
> Over 900 billion people in the world play PC games on windows, for example. "As of 2026, the world population is approximately 8.3 billion." [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
- dangus 7mo ago
  And only 100 million people globally use Macs as of 2024. The PC gaming market alone is 9x larger than the Mac's install base. https://www.spyhunter.com/shm/macos-stats/ https://www.spyhunter.com/shm/macos-stats/ That means a LOT of students who the MacBook Neo appeals to will cross it off their list for the mere fact that they can’t play things like Counter Strike 2/CS:Go on it. If I was a student today and only had $700 budget for all my equipment I’d probably end up with a previous generation Lenovo LOQ with the RTX 4050 or a current generation Acer Nitro with the RTX 5050. These laptops are thicker and heavier but they get decent battery life on integrated graphics for school work, then when I get back to my dorm I could play popular gaming titles without buying a separate game console. I’m sure the Neo will sell well and increase Apple’s market share, but this idea that it’s a market-changing disruptive device is an exaggeration. The #1 laptop manufacturer in the world is Lenovo, who sells nearly 3x as many systems as Apple, who is in 4th place. I think it will actually be quite trivial for manufacturers like Lenovo to respond and make their own similar model.
  - filleduchaos 7mo ago
    I'm not sure how you missed that the user you were responding to was poking a little bit of fun at you claiming that "over 900 BILLION" people play games on Windows. That aside, it is also a bit funny that the Hacker News crowd's grand indictment of Mac gaming always uses the same examples of first person shooters that gained ascendancy when they were young. Meanwhile a teenager in 2026 is more likely to be upset that they can't play Fortnite on it - and that's besides the fact that many of the games that today's teenagers are excited to play (from Roblox to the Hollow Knight series to Baldur's Gate 3 to the recently released Slay the Spire 2 and more) are available on macOS. But one wouldn't know that from listening to people whose impression of both gaming and Macs is stuck firmly in ~2015.
joombaga 7mo ago
That one has a lower pixel density. 162 ppi for the Yoga vs 219 for the Neo. My MacBook Air M3 is 224 and I can't image going much lower, even for OLED. Maybe if I watched more videos.
- dangus 7mo ago
  IMO, macOS' strange scaling exacerbates issues with having PPI at the wrong ratio. macOS looks a lot worse on a 27" 4K monitor versus Windows, and is most ideally displayed at 5K. I don't think anyone but the pickiest pixel hunters are going to mind the difference, and they'll enjoy the benefits of OLED like vastly improved contrast, HDR capability, and higher peak brightness than the Neo.
spacedcowboy 7mo ago
Reasons for the MacBook: - It has ~1.5x the screen real-estate (2408x1506 vs 1920x1200) - The CPU is (3566,8646) compared to the AMD (2366,9243) on geek bench. Single core (the most important) is ~1.5x faster - PC's battery life is 8-10 hours real-world (rather than quoted "up to 13"), Toms Hardware benchmarked the Neo at 13.5 - Neo is slightly lighter at 2.7 vs ~3.1 lbs. There are other reasons to go with the AMD version, larger storage, touchscreen if that's your thing, some people might even like Windows 11. But the Neo is still going to be a runaway hit.
- dangus 7mo ago
  - I don't think you're correct about the gulf in single core performance. On battery, the Cinebench 2024 scores (single core) of the Ryzen 7 AI 350 are 97% of the score you get from an M4 MacBook Air. (Cinebench is a lot better than GeekBench, IMO). (source: https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=702 https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=702) - Screen real estate does not equal resolution. Nobody is going to scale their MacBook Neo's smaller 13" screen down to take advantage of those pixels. I.e., if I have a 10 inch 8K screen that’s not really “more screen real estate” than a 27” 4K screen in practice. So the real question is whether the $500-800 user is a pixel hunter and loves smoother text at the expense of other purchase factors. IMO, macOS has weird resolutions like this because it sucks at scaling (e.g., 27" 4K monitors look worse in macOS than on Windows, which is why Apple goes with 5K) - Yoga 7 video playback on battery actually beats the Neo at almost 17 hours. (source: https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=726 https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=726 - Yoga 7 office productivity rundown is very close at 10 hours 54 minutes, I don't think anyone is going to be upset at that coming slightly behind the MacBook Air: https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=753 https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=753 - 2.7 vs 3.1 pounds is insignificant, not worth losing half your RAM over
  - spacedcowboy 7mo ago
    You might prefer a different benchmark, but I am correct in the gulf on geekbench. I just looked at their benchmark results. For what it's worth, Geekbench is a lot better than Cinebench IMO, because it's more "real world". > IMO, macOS has weird resolutions like this because it sucks at scaling That is not my experience. I have run MacOS on monitors ranging from 43" down to 23", in various resolutions. MacOS looks great to me. > 2.7 vs 3.1 pounds is insignificant Well, it's 15% heavier. Whether that's significant is up to the carrier.
Saris 7mo ago
>Seriously, give me a good reason to buy a Neo over a machine like this. What is actually better about the Mac objectively? The price? Yes the Lenovo is better but it's also $950.

by dangus 7mo ago

ewoodrich 7mo ago

Damn, an OLED screen at my go-to 14" screen size, and I can actually run Fedora on it? Going to have to do some more research on this thing...

dangus 7mo ago
In case you need it, this is the next model up with the 350 processor. If you care about graphics performance it has double the cores, and the bigger SSD as I mentioned: https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot-pc-14-2k-oled-touchscreen-laptop-amd-ryzen-ai-7-350-2025-16gb-memory-1tb-ssd-seashell/JJGSHC5C4H/sku/6615773 https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot... Review: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTe5kUYt9k https://youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTe5kUYt9k

jen20 7mo ago

> Over 900 billion people in the world play PC games on windows, for example. "As of 2026, the world population is approximately 8.3 billion." [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

dangus 7mo ago
And only 100 million people globally use Macs as of 2024. The PC gaming market alone is 9x larger than the Mac's install base. https://www.spyhunter.com/shm/macos-stats/ https://www.spyhunter.com/shm/macos-stats/ That means a LOT of students who the MacBook Neo appeals to will cross it off their list for the mere fact that they can’t play things like Counter Strike 2/CS:Go on it. If I was a student today and only had $700 budget for all my equipment I’d probably end up with a previous generation Lenovo LOQ with the RTX 4050 or a current generation Acer Nitro with the RTX 5050. These laptops are thicker and heavier but they get decent battery life on integrated graphics for school work, then when I get back to my dorm I could play popular gaming titles without buying a separate game console. I’m sure the Neo will sell well and increase Apple’s market share, but this idea that it’s a market-changing disruptive device is an exaggeration. The #1 laptop manufacturer in the world is Lenovo, who sells nearly 3x as many systems as Apple, who is in 4th place. I think it will actually be quite trivial for manufacturers like Lenovo to respond and make their own similar model.
- filleduchaos 7mo ago
  I'm not sure how you missed that the user you were responding to was poking a little bit of fun at you claiming that "over 900 BILLION" people play games on Windows. That aside, it is also a bit funny that the Hacker News crowd's grand indictment of Mac gaming always uses the same examples of first person shooters that gained ascendancy when they were young. Meanwhile a teenager in 2026 is more likely to be upset that they can't play Fortnite on it - and that's besides the fact that many of the games that today's teenagers are excited to play (from Roblox to the Hollow Knight series to Baldur's Gate 3 to the recently released Slay the Spire 2 and more) are available on macOS. But one wouldn't know that from listening to people whose impression of both gaming and Macs is stuck firmly in ~2015.

joombaga 7mo ago

That one has a lower pixel density. 162 ppi for the Yoga vs 219 for the Neo. My MacBook Air M3 is 224 and I can't image going much lower, even for OLED. Maybe if I watched more videos.

dangus 7mo ago
IMO, macOS' strange scaling exacerbates issues with having PPI at the wrong ratio. macOS looks a lot worse on a 27" 4K monitor versus Windows, and is most ideally displayed at 5K. I don't think anyone but the pickiest pixel hunters are going to mind the difference, and they'll enjoy the benefits of OLED like vastly improved contrast, HDR capability, and higher peak brightness than the Neo.

spacedcowboy 7mo ago

Reasons for the MacBook: - It has ~1.5x the screen real-estate (2408x1506 vs 1920x1200) - The CPU is (3566,8646) compared to the AMD (2366,9243) on geek bench. Single core (the most important) is ~1.5x faster - PC's battery life is 8-10 hours real-world (rather than quoted "up to 13"), Toms Hardware benchmarked the Neo at 13.5 - Neo is slightly lighter at 2.7 vs ~3.1 lbs. There are other reasons to go with the AMD version, larger storage, touchscreen if that's your thing, some people might even like Windows 11. But the Neo is still going to be a runaway hit.

dangus 7mo ago
- I don't think you're correct about the gulf in single core performance. On battery, the Cinebench 2024 scores (single core) of the Ryzen 7 AI 350 are 97% of the score you get from an M4 MacBook Air. (Cinebench is a lot better than GeekBench, IMO). (source: https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=702 https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=702) - Screen real estate does not equal resolution. Nobody is going to scale their MacBook Neo's smaller 13" screen down to take advantage of those pixels. I.e., if I have a 10 inch 8K screen that’s not really “more screen real estate” than a 27” 4K screen in practice. So the real question is whether the $500-800 user is a pixel hunter and loves smoother text at the expense of other purchase factors. IMO, macOS has weird resolutions like this because it sucks at scaling (e.g., 27" 4K monitors look worse in macOS than on Windows, which is why Apple goes with 5K) - Yoga 7 video playback on battery actually beats the Neo at almost 17 hours. (source: https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=726 https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=726 - Yoga 7 office productivity rundown is very close at 10 hours 54 minutes, I don't think anyone is going to be upset at that coming slightly behind the MacBook Air: https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=753 https://youtu.be/3ZTe5kUYt9k?t=753 - 2.7 vs 3.1 pounds is insignificant, not worth losing half your RAM over
- spacedcowboy 7mo ago
  You might prefer a different benchmark, but I am correct in the gulf on geekbench. I just looked at their benchmark results. For what it's worth, Geekbench is a lot better than Cinebench IMO, because it's more "real world". > IMO, macOS has weird resolutions like this because it sucks at scaling That is not my experience. I have run MacOS on monitors ranging from 43" down to 23", in various resolutions. MacOS looks great to me. > 2.7 vs 3.1 pounds is insignificant Well, it's 15% heavier. Whether that's significant is up to the carrier.

Saris 7mo ago

>Seriously, give me a good reason to buy a Neo over a machine like this. What is actually better about the Mac objectively? The price? Yes the Lenovo is better but it's also $950.