3 ms·

This is Apple's "Nintendo moment" when they realize they can package old hardware and win on polish and ecosystem.

kzrdude 7mo ago
Apple have historically moved forward minimum requirements for macOS and apps a bit aggressively. They need to slow that down now if they want us to take the macbook neo seriously.
- josephg 7mo ago
  Good. So many software developers have gotten so lazy with RAM usage in the past few decades. I hope the Neo is a kick in the pants to get everyone in the Apple ecosystem to take memory usage seriously. More efficient software benefits everyone.
  - dawnerd 7mo ago
    It's really quite bad. 'Telegram Lite' is using 1.16GB with just a single chat vs Signal using 193MB. Somehow vscode (including their renderers) manages to come in pretty low compared to even Apples native apps.
    - m-schuetz 7mo ago
      > Somehow vscode (including their renderers) manages to come in pretty low compared to even Apples native apps. Because the issue isn't electron, it's not freeing resources which you can do in any language/platform.
    - josephg 7mo ago
      > vs Signal using 193MB That’s still an order of magnitude worse than it should be. You don’t need 200mb of ram for a chat app.
  - p_ing 7mo ago
    > So many software developers have gotten so lazy with RAM usage in the past few decades. Fewer developers want to write ASM or C, today. Slower to market, slower to roll out features, etc. While that may seem like a good thing, and probably could be, the market doesn't like it. Developer choose heavy weight frameworks or don't make use of modern features in said frameworks to improve performance. And in some cases, performance can be 'good enough'. If I pretended to be a developer, if my app performs well enough, it's not my problem what else is running on your system. Besides, the OS governs it all regardless. That said, macOS has a terrible memory leak _somewhere_ that impacts even OOTB apps and this hasn't been corrected for the last two major releases.
    - josephg 7mo ago
      You don't need to program in ASM or C to write a memory efficient program. Swift, Go, Rust, C++ and C# are all reasonably memory efficient at the scales we're talking about. Usually you just have to actually look at memory usage and trim the obvious fat. But so many developers these days treat memory as an infinite resource, and don't have a clue how to use profiling tools to even investigate memory usage. That and, maybe stop shipping a copy of Chrome with your application. I'm hopeful that LLMs will improve the state of application development. Claude can write sloppy code, but it also knows how to write rust and swift, and it knows a lot of tricks for optimisation if you prompt it. There's 3rd party libraries which know how to interact with spotify. I wonder how many claude code tokens it would take to make a simple, native spotify client. Or discord client. Or client for Teams or Slack.
- simonh 7mo ago
  I’d disable major OS updates and stay on Tahoe, and only upgrade if other Neo owners report it’s ok to do so. Ive been burned by iOS updates that made the phone sluggish enough times. Not necessarily a reason to avoid the Neo, for the right use case. If I had secondary school kids they’d get one of these, but something to bear in mind.
alwillis 7mo ago
> This is Apple's "Nintendo moment" when they realize they can package old hardware and win on polish and ecosystem. The A18 Pro isn't even two years old yet; it debuted in iPhone 16 Pro and 16 Pro Max September 2024. What's funny is none of the PC laptops manufactures can match the speed and quality of the Neo. The benchmarks for the A18 Pro are impressive; its Single Thread Performance beats all mobile processors [1]; remember this processor was created for a phone: Apple A18 Pro 4,091 Apple M1 8 Core 3200 MHz. 3,675 Apple A15 Bionic 3,579 AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme 3,546 AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 230 3,538 Apple A14 Bionic 3,382 Intel Core i5-1235U 3,090 Apple A13 Bionic 2,354 Intel N150 1,902 Intel N100 1,893 AMD Ryzen Embedded R1505G 1,820 [1]: "A18 Pro Benchmark" - https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+A18+Pro&id=6268 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+A18+Pro&id=62...
- TiredOfLife 7mo ago
  Outside of some specialized benchmarks only Geekbench 6 is more or less usable for comparisons between generations or manufacturers.
  - tkzed49 7mo ago
    out of curiosity, what makes Geekbench 6 better?
    - TiredOfLife 7mo ago
      Differences in score correlate to differences in performance across platforms and generations.
saithound 7mo ago
They already had that exact strategy between 2012 and 2020.
bogantech 7mo ago
Except you have to run Tahoe
pjmlp 7mo ago
Except I can buy two or three Switches with Neo's price tag. Nintendo Switch - 279 euro Nintendo Switch 2 - 489 euro Neo with a proper SSD size - 800 euro.

Apple have historically moved forward minimum requirements for macOS and apps a bit aggressively. They need to slow that down now if they want us to take the macbook neo seriously.

josephg 7mo ago
Good. So many software developers have gotten so lazy with RAM usage in the past few decades. I hope the Neo is a kick in the pants to get everyone in the Apple ecosystem to take memory usage seriously. More efficient software benefits everyone.
- dawnerd 7mo ago
  It's really quite bad. 'Telegram Lite' is using 1.16GB with just a single chat vs Signal using 193MB. Somehow vscode (including their renderers) manages to come in pretty low compared to even Apples native apps.
  - m-schuetz 7mo ago
    > Somehow vscode (including their renderers) manages to come in pretty low compared to even Apples native apps. Because the issue isn't electron, it's not freeing resources which you can do in any language/platform.
  - josephg 7mo ago
    > vs Signal using 193MB That’s still an order of magnitude worse than it should be. You don’t need 200mb of ram for a chat app.
- p_ing 7mo ago
  > So many software developers have gotten so lazy with RAM usage in the past few decades. Fewer developers want to write ASM or C, today. Slower to market, slower to roll out features, etc. While that may seem like a good thing, and probably could be, the market doesn't like it. Developer choose heavy weight frameworks or don't make use of modern features in said frameworks to improve performance. And in some cases, performance can be 'good enough'. If I pretended to be a developer, if my app performs well enough, it's not my problem what else is running on your system. Besides, the OS governs it all regardless. That said, macOS has a terrible memory leak _somewhere_ that impacts even OOTB apps and this hasn't been corrected for the last two major releases.
  - josephg 7mo ago
    You don't need to program in ASM or C to write a memory efficient program. Swift, Go, Rust, C++ and C# are all reasonably memory efficient at the scales we're talking about. Usually you just have to actually look at memory usage and trim the obvious fat. But so many developers these days treat memory as an infinite resource, and don't have a clue how to use profiling tools to even investigate memory usage. That and, maybe stop shipping a copy of Chrome with your application. I'm hopeful that LLMs will improve the state of application development. Claude can write sloppy code, but it also knows how to write rust and swift, and it knows a lot of tricks for optimisation if you prompt it. There's 3rd party libraries which know how to interact with spotify. I wonder how many claude code tokens it would take to make a simple, native spotify client. Or discord client. Or client for Teams or Slack.
simonh 7mo ago
I’d disable major OS updates and stay on Tahoe, and only upgrade if other Neo owners report it’s ok to do so. Ive been burned by iOS updates that made the phone sluggish enough times. Not necessarily a reason to avoid the Neo, for the right use case. If I had secondary school kids they’d get one of these, but something to bear in mind.

alwillis 7mo ago

> This is Apple's "Nintendo moment" when they realize they can package old hardware and win on polish and ecosystem. The A18 Pro isn't even two years old yet; it debuted in iPhone 16 Pro and 16 Pro Max September 2024. What's funny is none of the PC laptops manufactures can match the speed and quality of the Neo. The benchmarks for the A18 Pro are impressive; its Single Thread Performance beats all mobile processors [1]; remember this processor was created for a phone: Apple A18 Pro 4,091 Apple M1 8 Core 3200 MHz. 3,675 Apple A15 Bionic 3,579 AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme 3,546 AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 230 3,538 Apple A14 Bionic 3,382 Intel Core i5-1235U 3,090 Apple A13 Bionic 2,354 Intel N150 1,902 Intel N100 1,893 AMD Ryzen Embedded R1505G 1,820 [1]: "A18 Pro Benchmark" - https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+A18+Pro&id=6268 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+A18+Pro&id=62...

TiredOfLife 7mo ago
Outside of some specialized benchmarks only Geekbench 6 is more or less usable for comparisons between generations or manufacturers.
- tkzed49 7mo ago
  out of curiosity, what makes Geekbench 6 better?
  - TiredOfLife 7mo ago
    Differences in score correlate to differences in performance across platforms and generations.

saithound 7mo ago

They already had that exact strategy between 2012 and 2020.

bogantech 7mo ago

Except you have to run Tahoe

pjmlp 7mo ago

Except I can buy two or three Switches with Neo's price tag. Nintendo Switch - 279 euro Nintendo Switch 2 - 489 euro Neo with a proper SSD size - 800 euro.