4 ms·

Protecting kids and Terrorism, always the reason why nobody is allowed to have privacy on the internet.

by dmix 8mo ago

nunobrito 8mo ago
Cars nowadays are packed with microphones and permanently connected to the internet on daily basis so that drivers can have remote assistance when the car breaks once every 5 years or so.
- Sayrus 8mo ago
  I keep hearing this one. But at least for EU, the eCall system requires external communication to be disabled until activated during serious accident. It cannot be used for tracking the vehicle in real-time. Some parts of the legislation (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32015R0758 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...): > 2. The personal data processed pursuant to this Regulation shall only be used for the purpose of handling the emergency situations referred to in the first subparagraph of Article 5(2). > Manufacturers shall provide clear and comprehensive information in the owner's manual about the processing of data carried out through the 112-based eCall in-vehicle system. That information shall consist of: > the fact that there is no constant tracking of the vehicle; That vehicle nowadays are equipped with always-on internet and microphones is not related to remote assistance.
  - SV_BubbleTime 8mo ago
    This is such misdirection. Your car if new enough, IS reporting its diagnostics including GPS via cell. All the time. This isn’t exactly personally identifiable so they get away with it just fine. This is unrelated to the microphones and assistance systems.
    - Sayrus 8mo ago
      Which is exactly my point. Cars are reporting on you, but tying that to remote assistance is disingenuous.
      - nobodyandproud 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        Sayrus 8mo ago
        Happy to read your thoughts, can you elaborate on this?
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
    - cluckindan 8mo ago
      It becomes personally identifiable through correlations with other datasets. That is the kind of thing people allow when they click accept or decline on those pesky ”we and our 195735 partners would like to…” dialogs.
  - nunobrito 8mo ago
    Kindly read point number 2 slowly. There are two definitions: a) Personal Data and b) Emergency Situations What is an emergency situation and how can a car determine it is one? These are "smart" cars which aren't nowadays smart enough to process all your data locally, so that data is sent to servers elsewhere which process if either points a) or b) apply. It is your choice to believe that voice data is ever deleted once acquired by governments and entities thirsty to benefit from that information. For security experts this is just another "I told you so" within a few years.
    - Sayrus 8mo ago
      Emergency situations are defined by two situations: severe accidents and manual press of the button. Article 6 covers the data being sent, Article 5 covers the manufacturer's obligations. Your audio during the accident and your last three locations may leak, but the eCall system is not designed for a permanent phone-home system. If I remember correctly, you can't even use the eCall SIM for tracking as that'd encourage people to disable safety features. All the things you are talking about, permanent phone-home, tracking of location, audio and video, driving habits, are tracked, sent and resold. That's what smart cars do. But it is not done through the eCall system. See it from the company perspective: why would they risk penalties for non-compliance when they can gather and resell all personal data with no risks using their own system instead of a safety one?
      - nunobrito 7mo ago
        That is assuming the eCall system is used at all. I stated that the microphone and network access installed on modern car for emergency situations can and will be used 24/7 when deemed "necessary" for your "security". Different things, same hardware.
- youknownothing 8mo ago
  And also so employees of said companies can spy on drivers and make fun of them: https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
  - stephbook 8mo ago
    Which just shows that consumers don't care. Tesla's camera surveillance wasn't exactly secret.
    - nobodyandproud 8mo ago
      Equating what companies get away with, as the clear signal to what consumers care about. And billionaires and nine-day old alts wonder why they need a bunker.
    - Sohcahtoa82 8mo ago
      Customers care, but not enough to actually change purchasing patterns.
    - mounram 8mo ago
      They care, but it is not in their top priorities
- officeplant 8mo ago
  One of my favorite things about going EV is the forums tend to be full of paranoid nerds which means someone will be willing to try desoldering the cell modem off their boards to see what happens.
hackingonempty 8mo ago
Also drug dealers and money launderers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Protecting kids and Terrorism, always the reason why nobody is allowed to have privacy on the internet.

by dmix 8mo ago

Protecting kids and Terrorism, always the reason why nobody is allowed to have privacy on the internet.

Cars nowadays are packed with microphones and permanently connected to the internet on daily basis so that drivers can have remote assistance when the car breaks once every 5 years or so.

Sayrus 8mo ago
I keep hearing this one. But at least for EU, the eCall system requires external communication to be disabled until activated during serious accident. It cannot be used for tracking the vehicle in real-time. Some parts of the legislation (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32015R0758 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...): > 2. The personal data processed pursuant to this Regulation shall only be used for the purpose of handling the emergency situations referred to in the first subparagraph of Article 5(2). > Manufacturers shall provide clear and comprehensive information in the owner's manual about the processing of data carried out through the 112-based eCall in-vehicle system. That information shall consist of: > the fact that there is no constant tracking of the vehicle; That vehicle nowadays are equipped with always-on internet and microphones is not related to remote assistance.
- SV_BubbleTime 8mo ago
  This is such misdirection. Your car if new enough, IS reporting its diagnostics including GPS via cell. All the time. This isn’t exactly personally identifiable so they get away with it just fine. This is unrelated to the microphones and assistance systems.
  - Sayrus 8mo ago
    Which is exactly my point. Cars are reporting on you, but tying that to remote assistance is disingenuous.
    - nobodyandproud 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - Sayrus 8mo ago
        Happy to read your thoughts, can you elaborate on this?
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
  - cluckindan 8mo ago
    It becomes personally identifiable through correlations with other datasets. That is the kind of thing people allow when they click accept or decline on those pesky ”we and our 195735 partners would like to…” dialogs.
- nunobrito 8mo ago
  Kindly read point number 2 slowly. There are two definitions: a) Personal Data and b) Emergency Situations What is an emergency situation and how can a car determine it is one? These are "smart" cars which aren't nowadays smart enough to process all your data locally, so that data is sent to servers elsewhere which process if either points a) or b) apply. It is your choice to believe that voice data is ever deleted once acquired by governments and entities thirsty to benefit from that information. For security experts this is just another "I told you so" within a few years.
  - Sayrus 8mo ago
    Emergency situations are defined by two situations: severe accidents and manual press of the button. Article 6 covers the data being sent, Article 5 covers the manufacturer's obligations. Your audio during the accident and your last three locations may leak, but the eCall system is not designed for a permanent phone-home system. If I remember correctly, you can't even use the eCall SIM for tracking as that'd encourage people to disable safety features. All the things you are talking about, permanent phone-home, tracking of location, audio and video, driving habits, are tracked, sent and resold. That's what smart cars do. But it is not done through the eCall system. See it from the company perspective: why would they risk penalties for non-compliance when they can gather and resell all personal data with no risks using their own system instead of a safety one?
    - nunobrito 7mo ago
      That is assuming the eCall system is used at all. I stated that the microphone and network access installed on modern car for emergency situations can and will be used 24/7 when deemed "necessary" for your "security". Different things, same hardware.
youknownothing 8mo ago
And also so employees of said companies can spy on drivers and make fun of them: https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
- stephbook 8mo ago
  Which just shows that consumers don't care. Tesla's camera surveillance wasn't exactly secret.
  - nobodyandproud 8mo ago
    Equating what companies get away with, as the clear signal to what consumers care about. And billionaires and nine-day old alts wonder why they need a bunker.
  - Sohcahtoa82 8mo ago
    Customers care, but not enough to actually change purchasing patterns.
  - mounram 8mo ago
    They care, but it is not in their top priorities
officeplant 8mo ago
One of my favorite things about going EV is the forums tend to be full of paranoid nerds which means someone will be willing to try desoldering the cell modem off their boards to see what happens.

hackingonempty 8mo ago

Also drug dealers and money launderers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...