4 ms·

Are you complaining about the Groningen gas wells? I thought that they were being decommissioned due to seismic risks?

sigio 8mo ago
Yeah, but even the local (groningen) residents think it's a bad idea to not keep some resources available for emergency situations (they also would like to heat their houses in winter) like when other sources are cut off.
- surgical_fire 8mo ago
  Is it even possible? My understanding is that the whole region is connected to those gas wells. There's so much you can take before the underground is hollow. They may not have a house to heat if tremors get too bad.
- notTooFarGone 8mo ago
  the mystical time when the wind on the see is not there and there is no sun? Maybe even the tides stop working?
mvdwoord 8mo ago
haha yes, the grand seismic risks (economic risk in single digit percentages of the profits available) but not talking about not using them, they are actively and very costly going to fill them with concrete to ensure in the future (even in whatever extreme scenario) they cannot be used again. On top of the fact that we suckered ourselves into long term agreements which led to having to sell our own gas, far below market price to other countries. Full blown retardedness, and the moral high ground was theirs. And our German neighbors, I can still see them laughing at the Orange Man Bad... Boo hoo... what a shitshow.
- surgical_fire 8mo ago
  > haha yes, the grand seismic risks (economic risk in single digit percentages of the profits available) If I lived in the region I wouldn't really care if the economic risk is single digit percentage. I would prefer my house to keep standing. > they are actively and very costly going to fill them with concrete to ensure in the future (even in whatever extreme scenario) they cannot be used again. I think you are arguing in bad faith. If you hollow the underground, filling it with something is a way to mitigate the seismic risk. > And our German neighbors, I can still see them laughing at the Orange Man Bad. Okay, I see now that talking to you is a waste of time. Have a great afternoon.
  - mvdwoord 8mo ago
    Love you too! (to clarify, the concrete has nothing to do with the seismic risks, and is solely intended to make it impossible to extract gas later, which some people see as a valid way to lower potential seismic impact in the future due to no extraction... as if it is the only way to deal with seismic risks... and the whole point of the profits being ample to mitigate any economic loss is that people's houses can be either made resistant, or, you know, we could buy affected people a brand spanking new house) Good luck with the rest.
  - yread 8mo ago
    Groningen gas field produced 40 billion m3 a year. 100m3 is 1MWh, currently sold for 50 eur. So the production would generate revenue of 20 billion eur a year. Tax it at 10%, get 2B eur. Buy/build houses for 400k a piece, 5.000 a year. There are cca 10.000 houses with minor or major damage. In 2 fucking years everyone gets a new second house for free and we get cheap gas.
    - littlestymaar 8mo ago
      You realize that people's houses are more than a number in a balance sheet? Losing all your personal items and memories + living homeless for a few years while the reconstruction is in progress isn't minor inconvenience.
      - walletdrainer 8mo ago
        Bullshit they are, houses are entirely replaceable and in fact many people do so every couple of years. Some jurisdictions even have “tenants rights” laws that literally force landlords to terminate all contracts whenever a tenant is about to have lived in a location for too long.
      - yread 8mo ago
        You realize cost of gas has direct consequences to 17M people's health as well? Our oma in her G-class building set her thermostat to 16 degrees in 2022. Because her heating bill shot to 1000+ eur/month. Only when the black mold started appearing did we manage to persuade her that 19 would be more appropriate. Of course that just traded it for money-related stress. And I didn't say kick everyone on the street while the reconstruction is taking place. Everyone can stay where they are. Earthquakes are rare and so far in 50 years of extraction there have been no injuries. Groningen isn't the only place with earthquakes in the world you know?

sigio 8mo ago

Yeah, but even the local (groningen) residents think it's a bad idea to not keep some resources available for emergency situations (they also would like to heat their houses in winter) like when other sources are cut off.

surgical_fire 8mo ago
Is it even possible? My understanding is that the whole region is connected to those gas wells. There's so much you can take before the underground is hollow. They may not have a house to heat if tremors get too bad.
notTooFarGone 8mo ago
the mystical time when the wind on the see is not there and there is no sun? Maybe even the tides stop working?

mvdwoord 8mo ago

haha yes, the grand seismic risks (economic risk in single digit percentages of the profits available) but not talking about not using them, they are actively and very costly going to fill them with concrete to ensure in the future (even in whatever extreme scenario) they cannot be used again. On top of the fact that we suckered ourselves into long term agreements which led to having to sell our own gas, far below market price to other countries. Full blown retardedness, and the moral high ground was theirs. And our German neighbors, I can still see them laughing at the Orange Man Bad... Boo hoo... what a shitshow.

surgical_fire 8mo ago
> haha yes, the grand seismic risks (economic risk in single digit percentages of the profits available) If I lived in the region I wouldn't really care if the economic risk is single digit percentage. I would prefer my house to keep standing. > they are actively and very costly going to fill them with concrete to ensure in the future (even in whatever extreme scenario) they cannot be used again. I think you are arguing in bad faith. If you hollow the underground, filling it with something is a way to mitigate the seismic risk. > And our German neighbors, I can still see them laughing at the Orange Man Bad. Okay, I see now that talking to you is a waste of time. Have a great afternoon.
- mvdwoord 8mo ago
  Love you too! (to clarify, the concrete has nothing to do with the seismic risks, and is solely intended to make it impossible to extract gas later, which some people see as a valid way to lower potential seismic impact in the future due to no extraction... as if it is the only way to deal with seismic risks... and the whole point of the profits being ample to mitigate any economic loss is that people's houses can be either made resistant, or, you know, we could buy affected people a brand spanking new house) Good luck with the rest.
- yread 8mo ago
  Groningen gas field produced 40 billion m3 a year. 100m3 is 1MWh, currently sold for 50 eur. So the production would generate revenue of 20 billion eur a year. Tax it at 10%, get 2B eur. Buy/build houses for 400k a piece, 5.000 a year. There are cca 10.000 houses with minor or major damage. In 2 fucking years everyone gets a new second house for free and we get cheap gas.
  - littlestymaar 8mo ago
    You realize that people's houses are more than a number in a balance sheet? Losing all your personal items and memories + living homeless for a few years while the reconstruction is in progress isn't minor inconvenience.
    - walletdrainer 8mo ago
      Bullshit they are, houses are entirely replaceable and in fact many people do so every couple of years. Some jurisdictions even have “tenants rights” laws that literally force landlords to terminate all contracts whenever a tenant is about to have lived in a location for too long.
    - yread 8mo ago
      You realize cost of gas has direct consequences to 17M people's health as well? Our oma in her G-class building set her thermostat to 16 degrees in 2022. Because her heating bill shot to 1000+ eur/month. Only when the black mold started appearing did we manage to persuade her that 19 would be more appropriate. Of course that just traded it for money-related stress. And I didn't say kick everyone on the street while the reconstruction is taking place. Everyone can stay where they are. Earthquakes are rare and so far in 50 years of extraction there have been no injuries. Groningen isn't the only place with earthquakes in the world you know?