4 ms·

TLDR: Meta want to push all the age verification requirements onto the OS makers (Apple, Google, everyone else gets caught in the crossfire) so that they don’t

TLDR: Meta want to push all the age verification requirements onto the OS makers (Apple, Google, everyone else gets caught in the crossfire) so that they don’t have to do anything AND they want it done in such a way that they can use it to profile people to push them targeted ads. Its like they want to keep being seen as the bad guys.

chongli 7mo ago
I think this is also a way of getting ahead of any “ban social media for teens and preteens” bills that might pop up in the US. They do not want repeats of Australia! By adding age verification into the operating system they can deflect responsibility but also respond to legislators with a scalpel rather than getting sledge-hammered.
- user_7832 7mo ago
  …Honestly this seems something very likely, more than the other suggestions.
2OEH8eoCRo0 7mo ago
I want age verification but not at the OS level.
- gzread 7mo ago
  What would a world with your preferred age verification system look like?
  - triceratops 7mo ago
    If age verification has to exist at all, it could look something like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282 And responses to some common criticisms of the idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46459959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46459959 I also forgot to mention in my original post that the token issuer is not a monopoly. Any company that wants to participate can do so, just like there are many brands of tobacco and alcohol. Require websites to accept at least 5 providers to ensure competition. To be clear though if it's being used as wedge for privacy violation then it should not exist at all. And from reading TFA preventing that may need a similarly coordinated counter-effort.
    - gzread 7mo ago
      That seems much more intrusive and bad for privacy than having the parent click a button that says the account is for a child under 18.
      - triceratops 7mo ago
        We already have that. On a spectrum of options, no verification is the least privacy intrusive. Baking it in at the OS level or forcing passport uploads are the most intrusive. My proposal is in the middle. A determined actor could maybe follow you to the store when you purchase your verification code, take a quick picture with a powerful camera (or bribe the store to do it sneakily) and unmask you online. But there's no way to do it at scale. And if you buy the code from a reseller (ask a panhandler to buy one for you, perhaps) then it's even more robust.
        gzread 7mo ago
        We don't have that. If we did, California wouldn't have to mandate it.
- gosub100 7mo ago
  I want reverse age verification that lists the ages of every social network post. I think a lot of people that criticize social network toxicity don't realize their interlocutors are half their age. It's not one-to-one, meaning maturity doesn't follow from age, but I think there would be some affordances made in both directions. A younger person would be less surprised that a 60+ yr old would hold certain views. And vice versa.
- hackinthebochs 7mo ago
  Yes, let me send a picture of my ID to every app on the internet. That's so much better than having the device I own attest to my age anonymously.
- inetknght 7mo ago
  > I want age verification Why?
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 7mo ago
    Because it's absurd to allow children to simply click "I am 18." Nowhere else works like this.
    - inetknght 7mo ago
      > Nowhere else works like this. Are you serious? Because this comment doesn't make it sound like you're serious. EULAs and the like allow adults to simply click "I accept". That's apparently the way contracts work these days. Speaking of contracts: children aren't allowed to sign contracts. So those apps that children are using with EULAs? It's absurd to allow adults to simply click "I accept". We need to have "acceptance verification" laws to prevent this kind of abuse. It's also absurd to allow children to simply enter a church. Churches teach dangerous thoughts. Have you read their books?! Those books have sex, murder, theft! Think of the children! There's many kinds of religions and we need to track the religion bracket of our children. It's absurd to allow a child to simply click "I am Christian." Nowhere else works like this. We need to have "religious verification" laws to prevent this kind of abuse. What you want isn't conducive to a "high trust" society [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_socie...
      - deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
    - casey2 7mo ago
      R-rated movies, explicit graphic novels, health/anatomy books, romance novels. All example of material that are contemporary harmful to minors yet are simply accessible to minors. In the recent past you could add contraception and talking about STDs The absurdity here comes from the fact that this is only illegal when one convinces a group of wetware about the dangers of porn addiction and LGBT, even more absurd this can only be done through misinformation since neither LGBT grooming rings nor porn addiction are real. I see the absurdity in pushing for laws in the hope of preventing a disease that only exists in your mind? Can you? I believe you can if you step out of idpol and look at the cold data/dollars.
- JoshTriplett 7mo ago
  > I want age verification Please feel free to verify your own age with anyone you like. If you mean "I want other people to", then no.

chongli 7mo ago

I think this is also a way of getting ahead of any “ban social media for teens and preteens” bills that might pop up in the US. They do not want repeats of Australia! By adding age verification into the operating system they can deflect responsibility but also respond to legislators with a scalpel rather than getting sledge-hammered.

user_7832 7mo ago
…Honestly this seems something very likely, more than the other suggestions.

2OEH8eoCRo0 7mo ago

I want age verification but not at the OS level.

gzread 7mo ago
What would a world with your preferred age verification system look like?
- triceratops 7mo ago
  If age verification has to exist at all, it could look something like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282 And responses to some common criticisms of the idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46459959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46459959 I also forgot to mention in my original post that the token issuer is not a monopoly. Any company that wants to participate can do so, just like there are many brands of tobacco and alcohol. Require websites to accept at least 5 providers to ensure competition. To be clear though if it's being used as wedge for privacy violation then it should not exist at all. And from reading TFA preventing that may need a similarly coordinated counter-effort.
  - gzread 7mo ago
    That seems much more intrusive and bad for privacy than having the parent click a button that says the account is for a child under 18.
    - triceratops 7mo ago
      We already have that. On a spectrum of options, no verification is the least privacy intrusive. Baking it in at the OS level or forcing passport uploads are the most intrusive. My proposal is in the middle. A determined actor could maybe follow you to the store when you purchase your verification code, take a quick picture with a powerful camera (or bribe the store to do it sneakily) and unmask you online. But there's no way to do it at scale. And if you buy the code from a reseller (ask a panhandler to buy one for you, perhaps) then it's even more robust.
      - gzread 7mo ago
        We don't have that. If we did, California wouldn't have to mandate it.
gosub100 7mo ago
I want reverse age verification that lists the ages of every social network post. I think a lot of people that criticize social network toxicity don't realize their interlocutors are half their age. It's not one-to-one, meaning maturity doesn't follow from age, but I think there would be some affordances made in both directions. A younger person would be less surprised that a 60+ yr old would hold certain views. And vice versa.
hackinthebochs 7mo ago
Yes, let me send a picture of my ID to every app on the internet. That's so much better than having the device I own attest to my age anonymously.
inetknght 7mo ago
> I want age verification Why?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 7mo ago
  Because it's absurd to allow children to simply click "I am 18." Nowhere else works like this.
  - inetknght 7mo ago
    > Nowhere else works like this. Are you serious? Because this comment doesn't make it sound like you're serious. EULAs and the like allow adults to simply click "I accept". That's apparently the way contracts work these days. Speaking of contracts: children aren't allowed to sign contracts. So those apps that children are using with EULAs? It's absurd to allow adults to simply click "I accept". We need to have "acceptance verification" laws to prevent this kind of abuse. It's also absurd to allow children to simply enter a church. Churches teach dangerous thoughts. Have you read their books?! Those books have sex, murder, theft! Think of the children! There's many kinds of religions and we need to track the religion bracket of our children. It's absurd to allow a child to simply click "I am Christian." Nowhere else works like this. We need to have "religious verification" laws to prevent this kind of abuse. What you want isn't conducive to a "high trust" society [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_socie...
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
  - casey2 7mo ago
    R-rated movies, explicit graphic novels, health/anatomy books, romance novels. All example of material that are contemporary harmful to minors yet are simply accessible to minors. In the recent past you could add contraception and talking about STDs The absurdity here comes from the fact that this is only illegal when one convinces a group of wetware about the dangers of porn addiction and LGBT, even more absurd this can only be done through misinformation since neither LGBT grooming rings nor porn addiction are real. I see the absurdity in pushing for laws in the hope of preventing a disease that only exists in your mind? Can you? I believe you can if you step out of idpol and look at the cold data/dollars.
JoshTriplett 7mo ago
> I want age verification Please feel free to verify your own age with anyone you like. If you mean "I want other people to", then no.