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The current Middle East situation dates back to at least the second millenium BCE.

by margalabargala 8mo ago

JasonADrury 8mo ago
Including the significant amount of recent European immigrants?
- margalabargala 8mo ago
  Obviously the recent immigrants are recent. Anything that is recent is recent. Was there a time in the last several thousand years when there was not a "significant amount of recent X immigrants"? No there was not. The whole region is layers upon layers upon layers of waves of immigration of different groups.
gravisultra 8mo ago
No it dates to the late 1800s with the creation of Zionism. It's important that we stay rooted in history and not religious mythology.
- margalabargala 8mo ago
  The Middle East had plenty of wars, religious violence, etc long before the late 1800s. The Crusades are not religious mythology. The Mongols are not religious mythology. The Rashidun Caliphate was not religious mythology. These are just three entries in a very long list of non-peaceful power shifts in the Levant.
  - gravisultra 8mo ago
    None of that has anything to do with "Israel", which is a creation of Zionism, again from the late 1800s.
    - margalabargala 8mo ago
      Sure. We're both right. You said: "$group has been meddling in the Middle East since $group was created" I said: "groups have been meddling in the Middle East for millenia." You disagreed, apparently because you're choosing to define "the current situation" as "Zionists meddling in the Middle East" so I suppose you're tautologically correct that the "current situation" has been around as long as they have.
      - gravisultra 8mo ago
        Humanity has had wars since homo sapiens evolved (and prior) that doesn't remove all context and morality (viewed through any lens).
        margalabargala 8mo ago
        You're saying the same thing. Saying "the situation with the Zionists has existed as long as Zionism has existed" is the same as saying "the situation with Homo sapiens has existed as long as Homo sapiens has".

The current Middle East situation dates back to at least the second millenium BCE.

JasonADrury 8mo ago

Including the significant amount of recent European immigrants?

margalabargala 8mo ago
Obviously the recent immigrants are recent. Anything that is recent is recent. Was there a time in the last several thousand years when there was not a "significant amount of recent X immigrants"? No there was not. The whole region is layers upon layers upon layers of waves of immigration of different groups.

gravisultra 8mo ago

No it dates to the late 1800s with the creation of Zionism. It's important that we stay rooted in history and not religious mythology.

margalabargala 8mo ago
The Middle East had plenty of wars, religious violence, etc long before the late 1800s. The Crusades are not religious mythology. The Mongols are not religious mythology. The Rashidun Caliphate was not religious mythology. These are just three entries in a very long list of non-peaceful power shifts in the Levant.
- gravisultra 8mo ago
  None of that has anything to do with "Israel", which is a creation of Zionism, again from the late 1800s.
  - margalabargala 8mo ago
    Sure. We're both right. You said: "$group has been meddling in the Middle East since $group was created" I said: "groups have been meddling in the Middle East for millenia." You disagreed, apparently because you're choosing to define "the current situation" as "Zionists meddling in the Middle East" so I suppose you're tautologically correct that the "current situation" has been around as long as they have.
    - gravisultra 8mo ago
      Humanity has had wars since homo sapiens evolved (and prior) that doesn't remove all context and morality (viewed through any lens).
      - margalabargala 8mo ago
        You're saying the same thing. Saying "the situation with the Zionists has existed as long as Zionism has existed" is the same as saying "the situation with Homo sapiens has existed as long as Homo sapiens has".