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Another rewrite in Rust. What about finally stop using node.js for server side development?
by pjmlp 8mo ago
Another rewrite in Rust.
What about finally stop using node.js for server side development?
- vijaybritto 8mo agoThis is for tooling. Node.js has been extraordinarily useful for building build tools. We're outgrowing it's capacity and rightfully moving to a compiled language. Also faster tooling is essential for establishing a high quality feedback loop for AI agents
- pjmlp 8mo agoWhy go halfway, embrace compiled languages in the backend. Fast all the way down, especially when coupled with REPL tooling.
- omnimus 8mo agoBecause writing Rust backend is needlessly complex for majority of projects.
- potwinkle 8mo agoI've had a great time using Rust with Actix as the framework.
- pjmlp 8mo agoStill easier than dealing with node dependencies, webpack and co, they make me wish to write ASP with OCX components instead.
- drawfloat 8mo agoYour complaint is with Vite – famously incredibly simple and reliable to work with – using Rust, but you're bringing up webpack's complexity? Node dependencies are fine, add an npmrc file to have it default to exact versioning and you solve 90% of common day to day problems. It's not ideal, but nor is cargo's mystery meat approach to importing optional features from packages.
- pjmlp 8mo agoMy remark, and not complaint, is that the fashion to rewrite everything in Rust across the JavaScript ecosystem proves the point of holding it wrong. Maybe leave JavaScript on the browser, where it belongs.
- maccard 8mo agoThere’s a middle ground between node and rust. Dotnet and Java are wildly productive places to work but they’re not as exciting as rust. Also, writing JavaScript for the backend is needlessly underperforming for anything with any load.
- wiseowise 8mo agoIt takes tooling team and discipline to keep compile times at bay when you reach mid size projects with compiled languages (looking at you Java, C++, Rust).
- pjmlp 8mo agoLack of discipline is exactly the magic word regardig the node ecosystem mess.
- wiseowise 8mo agoMaybe? The point still stands that majority of programmers/industry is not equipped to deal with this adequately.
- christophilus 8mo agoBut, it doesn’t need to be so. Go is pretty fast to compile. So is Jai, from what I’ve seen. So was TurboPascal. Rust has a similar problem to the one Vite has been solving- Rust (and most languages) weren’t designed for compilation speed, and it’s hard to retroactively fix that. But, there’s no reason we shouldn’t have a bunch of statically typed, fast-to-compile languages.
- pjmlp 8mo agoI agree with your remark, only that Rust's current problem is tooling, not the language itself. See OCaml or Haskell, they also have interpreters and REPLs as part of their tooling. Also there should be no need to always compile crates from scratch when starting a new project. Which ironically circles back to your remark of having a similar problem.
- CodeCompost 8mo agoNode as a compiler runtime or node as a runtime runtime?
- pjmlp 8mo agoAnything backend related.
- hrmtst93837 8mo ago[flagged]
- pjmlp 8mo agoIt has worked perfectly fine with compiled languages until someone had the idea to use V8 outside of the browser. In fact it still does, I only use node when forced to do so by project delivery where "backend" implies something like Next.js full stack, or React apps running on iframes from SaaS products.
- esafak 8mo ago> ... it's a much bigger ask for server-side app logic where teams lean on JS and its libraries. Well that's where they went wrong.
- mmusc 8mo agoisnt that what projects like bun are aiming to do?
- maccard 8mo agoI’m with you. It’s very telling when all of the tools are being rewritten and seeing orders of magnitudes of speed ups. It just shows that people don’t value the actual performance of what they’re running.