4 ms·

Right there with you. Sure, I have gained a lot as a software engineer in the valley (I guess I'm upper-middle class now), but I'd give it up and go right back

by hn_acc1 7mo ago

Right there with you. Sure, I have gained a lot as a software engineer in the valley (I guess I'm upper-middle class now), but I'd give it up and go right back to lower-middle class (1980s) status I was raised in if it meant my kids could also aspire to a similar lower-middle class life. This suicide-pact of "either AI goes crazy and 100 people rule the world with 99% of the world's wealth" or "AI fails badly and everyone's standard of living drops 3 levels, except for the 100 people that rule the world with 99% of the world's wealth" is not what I signed up for. Nor is it in any way sustainable or wise. Too much class distinction / wealth between lower/upper classes, and a surplus of unemployed lower-class men is how many revolts/revolutions/wars have started.

alex43578 7mo ago
You can easily live a “lower middle class 1980s life” on minimum wage today. Find a 1980s apartment, an early 2000s used car, and don’t bother paying for TV, Starbucks, a cellphone, etc.
- wwweston 7mo ago
  The rent on a literal 1980s apartment (let alone SFH mortgage) in every area that I’ve lived in has scaled up faster than average income. This is the trend for essentials. Consumer electronics are cheaper; this is the trend for substitutable goods. Love me the right 20-30 year old car, but the dramatic cost rise around covid times means the savings is only relative to new. A 3x increase in old car prices hasn’t been matched by 3 fold wage increases for most. And of course we’re discussing this in a larger conversation about automating away 1980s jobs.
  - alex43578 7mo ago
    If you want 1980s, you have to go all in. That means you can't live in today's areas which have improved in the 40+ years since the 1980s, but move to areas that are not developed yet or have stagnated - you don't get those improvements, amenities, and job markets/school systems of 2020s at 1980s prices today. You also aren't buying today's average used car (which has gone up about 50% per CPI numbers, not 300%, since 2020), with a backup camera, blind spot monitoring, side curtain airbags, etc. Hop on FB Marketplace and find the cheapest used car from 2010+ that runs: it's still more fully featured, with better safety and fuel economy than that 1980s car, and likely cheaper in adjusted dollars than 1980s. What 1980s jobs have been automated away without providing alternatives? Switchboard operator> Call center rep; typist> administrative assistant, video store clerk> regular store clerk, etc.
- babypuncher 7mo ago
  this is straight up not even true, and even if it was, you're ignoring the fact that things like cell phone and internet are required to function in modern society.
  - NetMageSCW 7mo ago
    They are only required for a modern lifestyle. Plenty of Amish manage without them.
    - tyg13 7mo ago
      That's because they literally live in an isolated society where everyone else accords to the same rules about technology. Unless you're going off to live on a commune, you're not going to be able to live like the Amish in 2026.
  - alex43578 7mo ago
    $10 a month cell phone plan to pay bills and a $50 Android phone easily fits into this budget for essential internet use. Remember, the OP wants to live a "lower-middle class (1980s)" life, so he doesn't need the latest camera phone, Snapchat, Netflix, and more.

by hn_acc1 7mo ago

alex43578 7mo ago

You can easily live a “lower middle class 1980s life” on minimum wage today. Find a 1980s apartment, an early 2000s used car, and don’t bother paying for TV, Starbucks, a cellphone, etc.

wwweston 7mo ago
The rent on a literal 1980s apartment (let alone SFH mortgage) in every area that I’ve lived in has scaled up faster than average income. This is the trend for essentials. Consumer electronics are cheaper; this is the trend for substitutable goods. Love me the right 20-30 year old car, but the dramatic cost rise around covid times means the savings is only relative to new. A 3x increase in old car prices hasn’t been matched by 3 fold wage increases for most. And of course we’re discussing this in a larger conversation about automating away 1980s jobs.
- alex43578 7mo ago
  If you want 1980s, you have to go all in. That means you can't live in today's areas which have improved in the 40+ years since the 1980s, but move to areas that are not developed yet or have stagnated - you don't get those improvements, amenities, and job markets/school systems of 2020s at 1980s prices today. You also aren't buying today's average used car (which has gone up about 50% per CPI numbers, not 300%, since 2020), with a backup camera, blind spot monitoring, side curtain airbags, etc. Hop on FB Marketplace and find the cheapest used car from 2010+ that runs: it's still more fully featured, with better safety and fuel economy than that 1980s car, and likely cheaper in adjusted dollars than 1980s. What 1980s jobs have been automated away without providing alternatives? Switchboard operator> Call center rep; typist> administrative assistant, video store clerk> regular store clerk, etc.
babypuncher 7mo ago
this is straight up not even true, and even if it was, you're ignoring the fact that things like cell phone and internet are required to function in modern society.
- NetMageSCW 7mo ago
  They are only required for a modern lifestyle. Plenty of Amish manage without them.
  - tyg13 7mo ago
    That's because they literally live in an isolated society where everyone else accords to the same rules about technology. Unless you're going off to live on a commune, you're not going to be able to live like the Amish in 2026.
- alex43578 7mo ago
  $10 a month cell phone plan to pay bills and a $50 Android phone easily fits into this budget for essential internet use. Remember, the OP wants to live a "lower-middle class (1980s)" life, so he doesn't need the latest camera phone, Snapchat, Netflix, and more.