4 ms·

Yeah, it's a mouse study, but there are tons of human studies backing the whole gut-brain connection. There are even a bunch of books on it [1][2]. What's real

Yeah, it's a mouse study, but there are tons of human studies backing the whole gut-brain connection. There are even a bunch of books on it [1][2]. What's really cool is that the paper used low-dose capsaicin (just 5 μg/kg injected), and it completely restored hippocampal FOS activity and memory in older mice. Basically, that's the same stuff you get in cayenne pepper supplements - pretty easy to get your hands on. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28837738-the-mind-gut-connection https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28837738-the-mind-gut-co... [2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35210457-the-psychobiotic-revolution https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35210457-the-psychobioti...

jrapdx3 7mo ago
I've long regarded the great variety of chilis as its own distinct food group. But wonderful as they are for flavoring food, quite often in my home, I'm not sure how much of an effect orally consumed capsaicin has on memory functioning. Conceivably parenteral capsaicin has different effects on hippocampal integrity or physiology than achievable with ingestion. I'm not familiar enough with disposition of capsaicin in the gut to comment further. My question is whether capsaicin passes from gut into the circulation in any appreciable quantity. I suspect it doesn't but I couldn't say I know for sure. I'll have to add it to the already long list of things I need to look up.
- mustaphah 7mo ago
  Chili could work [1], but not too much of it [2] [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27079706/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27079706/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31137805/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31137805/
  - ljf 7mo ago
    No 2 is a fascinating study! My mother was 'taking' (eating) large amounts of raw chilli as she found it a very efficient cure for her rheumatoid arthritis - she had brilliantly reduced joint pain. BUT after a few years it caused painful and disfiguring rosacea. She stopped the chilli and moved to acupuncture for the arthritis, which worked pretty much as well, but not something she can do herself at home for 'free'. Since she has v low BML, I'm now pleased to see she stopped eating too much chilli!
Aurornis 7mo ago
> What's really cool is that the paper used low-dose capsaicin (just 5 μg/kg injected), and it completely restored hippocampal FOS activity and memory in older mice. There are countless papers published where simple ingredients produce miracles in mice. Most of them don’t replicate. If you look up most food ingredients you can find someone, somewhere claiming to have used it to produce amazing outcomes in mice. After you read a lot of those you learn not to take individual papers seriously if the claims seem too good to be true.
- mustaphah 7mo ago
  > After you read a lot of those you learn not to take individual papers seriously Can't disagree, but keep in mind that almost all meds are tested first in mice/animal models before human trials verify the effects.
  - Aurornis 7mo ago
    My comment had nothing to do with mice versus humans. It’s about singular papers with too good to be true results. You can find these in humans too.
    - mustaphah 7mo ago
      I guess "too good to be true" is not a decent argument to convince a rational mind
      - Aurornis 7mo ago
        The salient point of my comment is singular paper The rational mind should not be seeing singular papers and assuming they’re correct. There are a lot of incentives for researchers to publish amazing results that benefit their career. They find ways to publish these through small sample sizes, p-hacking, or worse like faking results. The amazing results usually disappear in larger studies by more rigorous researchers. There are so many papers showing amazing things in a handful of mice in a lab or even human volunteers that do not appear again in properly powered studies.
InkCanon 7mo ago
I only have marginal knowledge about neuroscience, but one of my neuroscience professors in class would tell us "You can cure anything in mice." I don't know the mechanism why, but you can find tons of papers with incredibly strong results for curing of mitigating dementia, cognitive decline, addiction, etc in mice, but these almost never seen to work on people.
- nofriend 7mo ago
  They're human specific ailments. We create a fake version of them in mice, then we fix the fake version. The basic problem with these issues is we don't understand the root cause. So we can replicate the symptoms in a mouse model then fix the symptoms, but that doesn't work in humans because the root cause is still there.
- mustaphah 7mo ago
  I guess it's because most major disorders and diseases have so many pathways at play that figuring out which one's actually causing the problem at the individual level is just too tricky. The other thing concerns how potent the effect is to be therapeutic. In many cases, the effect is just marginal to be meaningful.

jrapdx3 7mo ago

I've long regarded the great variety of chilis as its own distinct food group. But wonderful as they are for flavoring food, quite often in my home, I'm not sure how much of an effect orally consumed capsaicin has on memory functioning. Conceivably parenteral capsaicin has different effects on hippocampal integrity or physiology than achievable with ingestion. I'm not familiar enough with disposition of capsaicin in the gut to comment further. My question is whether capsaicin passes from gut into the circulation in any appreciable quantity. I suspect it doesn't but I couldn't say I know for sure. I'll have to add it to the already long list of things I need to look up.

mustaphah 7mo ago
Chili could work [1], but not too much of it [2] [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27079706/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27079706/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31137805/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31137805/
- ljf 7mo ago
  No 2 is a fascinating study! My mother was 'taking' (eating) large amounts of raw chilli as she found it a very efficient cure for her rheumatoid arthritis - she had brilliantly reduced joint pain. BUT after a few years it caused painful and disfiguring rosacea. She stopped the chilli and moved to acupuncture for the arthritis, which worked pretty much as well, but not something she can do herself at home for 'free'. Since she has v low BML, I'm now pleased to see she stopped eating too much chilli!

Aurornis 7mo ago

> What's really cool is that the paper used low-dose capsaicin (just 5 μg/kg injected), and it completely restored hippocampal FOS activity and memory in older mice. There are countless papers published where simple ingredients produce miracles in mice. Most of them don’t replicate. If you look up most food ingredients you can find someone, somewhere claiming to have used it to produce amazing outcomes in mice. After you read a lot of those you learn not to take individual papers seriously if the claims seem too good to be true.

mustaphah 7mo ago
> After you read a lot of those you learn not to take individual papers seriously Can't disagree, but keep in mind that almost all meds are tested first in mice/animal models before human trials verify the effects.
- Aurornis 7mo ago
  My comment had nothing to do with mice versus humans. It’s about singular papers with too good to be true results. You can find these in humans too.
  - mustaphah 7mo ago
    I guess "too good to be true" is not a decent argument to convince a rational mind
    - Aurornis 7mo ago
      The salient point of my comment is singular paper The rational mind should not be seeing singular papers and assuming they’re correct. There are a lot of incentives for researchers to publish amazing results that benefit their career. They find ways to publish these through small sample sizes, p-hacking, or worse like faking results. The amazing results usually disappear in larger studies by more rigorous researchers. There are so many papers showing amazing things in a handful of mice in a lab or even human volunteers that do not appear again in properly powered studies.

InkCanon 7mo ago

I only have marginal knowledge about neuroscience, but one of my neuroscience professors in class would tell us "You can cure anything in mice." I don't know the mechanism why, but you can find tons of papers with incredibly strong results for curing of mitigating dementia, cognitive decline, addiction, etc in mice, but these almost never seen to work on people.

nofriend 7mo ago
They're human specific ailments. We create a fake version of them in mice, then we fix the fake version. The basic problem with these issues is we don't understand the root cause. So we can replicate the symptoms in a mouse model then fix the symptoms, but that doesn't work in humans because the root cause is still there.
mustaphah 7mo ago
I guess it's because most major disorders and diseases have so many pathways at play that figuring out which one's actually causing the problem at the individual level is just too tricky. The other thing concerns how potent the effect is to be therapeutic. In many cases, the effect is just marginal to be meaningful.