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Can't expect Western media to write well. I saw a funnt reel today. It's Italy to Americans but Eye-ran and Eye-raq...

quesera 7mo ago
There's no reason for Italy and Iran/Iraq to be pronounced similarly. (Cf Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Idaho?) But FWIW, the EYE-rack thing is because GWB (most prominently, but others before and after) intentionally mispronounced the name of the country, in a "real american" kind of way, and also to annoy SAD-dumb Hussein as a kind of "we're stupid but we're going to kill you anyway" kind of psyop. Or maybe just "we disrespect you in advance of killing you"? Americans of other political persuasions usually pronounce the names correctly.
- esseph 7mo ago
  I've lived in over a dozen states and I've never heard either called anything other than EYE-(ran/raq) in conversation. The extremely, I mean extremely rare occasion when someone pronounces it differently on TV, it's almost like they get side-eyed by other people as trying to "talk fancy".
  - quesera 7mo ago
    Well, I've lived in four states in the last 20 years. Anecdotally, the pronunciation popularity has split neatly along statewide-prominent political lines. For my four example states, three were correct/respectful, and one wrong/disrespectful. Correct pronunciation has also had an inverse correlation with the rates of active/former military employment, which might be more directly indicative. And a positive correlation with education levels. So the answer is in there somewhere, I suspect. National TV "news" programming might have a style guide which dictates pandering to the audience by speaking in real american, no matter how well-educated the hosts might be.
    - esseph 7mo ago
      I've been thinking about this a bit more and I think we're actually talking about two (or more) different pronunciations. There is a VERY hard "I" that Lindsey Graham does. I think that's the specific version you're talking about, and that one is intentionally offputting. It's like "EYEEE RACK", but that does sound different from "AYERAK" or "EYEROQ".
      - quesera 7mo ago
        Yes, I think you're right. The middle ground, which I'll phoneticize as "uh-RON" or even "uh-RAN" is what I hear in most places. The effete "ih-RAHN" is the voice that you mentioned might get side-eyes. This is the closest to how Iranians that I know pronounce it, except that we don't have a phoneme quite like their R, which to my ears sounds like a D, L, and R all smashed together. But these side-eyes are mostly fair, I think. It's like Americans prounouncing France as "Frawhce", or Paris as "Pahdee". Ostentatious and pretentious, for an English-speaker. And Lindsey's provocative "EYE-ran" is very present in some locations, I think because GHWB and GWB's affected pronunciations were pounded into the American consciousness during Gulf Wars 1 and 2. Although Reagan did it too, IIRC, and I'm not sure about Clinton.
- thewhitetulip 7mo ago
  Well, the rest of the world calls Italy as eetaly. Iran as eeran and Iraq as eeraq It's interesting that Idaho is spoken as Eye-Dahoe. So maybe its a regional thing and not whatever the reel was purporting it to be
  - quesera 7mo ago
    I don't think the "rest of the world" does anything consistently! :) But the pronunciation difference between Indiana ("short I", in-dee-ANN-uh) vs Idaho ("long I", EYE-duh-hoe) isn't necessarily meaningful. The letter I just has multiple common pronunciations in English, which I'm told is confusing for learners!
quesera 7mo ago
I didn't think of it in time to update my previous comment, so I'll add another! Decades ago, I knew people who pronounced "Italian" as eye-TAL-yun. They were usually older, sometimes WW2 veterans. This was in an area of the US that has a large Italian immigrant population, FWIW. I don't know if it was due to historical disrespect of Mussolini-era Italy, some contemporary xenophobia, or just simple ignorance. They all pronounced "Italy" in the normal way though.
- thewhitetulip 7mo ago
  This is hilarious. I don't think this is xenophobia. Otherwise why is Idaho called eyedaho? Maybe its a regional thing or just ignorance.
  - quesera 7mo ago
    I agree that ignorance is the most likely explanation. But it's not like these folks didn't grow up with "Italy" and "Italian" being on the radio/TV all the time, spoken correctly by newscasters. So there's a disconnect there, and it's also undeniable that there was an anti-Italian sentiment in the then-previous waves of naturalized immigrants. So I can't say for sure.

There's no reason for Italy and Iran/Iraq to be pronounced similarly. (Cf Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Idaho?) But FWIW, the EYE-rack thing is because GWB (most prominently, but others before and after) intentionally mispronounced the name of the country, in a "real american" kind of way, and also to annoy SAD-dumb Hussein as a kind of "we're stupid but we're going to kill you anyway" kind of psyop. Or maybe just "we disrespect you in advance of killing you"? Americans of other political persuasions usually pronounce the names correctly.

esseph 7mo ago
I've lived in over a dozen states and I've never heard either called anything other than EYE-(ran/raq) in conversation. The extremely, I mean extremely rare occasion when someone pronounces it differently on TV, it's almost like they get side-eyed by other people as trying to "talk fancy".
- quesera 7mo ago
  Well, I've lived in four states in the last 20 years. Anecdotally, the pronunciation popularity has split neatly along statewide-prominent political lines. For my four example states, three were correct/respectful, and one wrong/disrespectful. Correct pronunciation has also had an inverse correlation with the rates of active/former military employment, which might be more directly indicative. And a positive correlation with education levels. So the answer is in there somewhere, I suspect. National TV "news" programming might have a style guide which dictates pandering to the audience by speaking in real american, no matter how well-educated the hosts might be.
  - esseph 7mo ago
    I've been thinking about this a bit more and I think we're actually talking about two (or more) different pronunciations. There is a VERY hard "I" that Lindsey Graham does. I think that's the specific version you're talking about, and that one is intentionally offputting. It's like "EYEEE RACK", but that does sound different from "AYERAK" or "EYEROQ".
    - quesera 7mo ago
      Yes, I think you're right. The middle ground, which I'll phoneticize as "uh-RON" or even "uh-RAN" is what I hear in most places. The effete "ih-RAHN" is the voice that you mentioned might get side-eyes. This is the closest to how Iranians that I know pronounce it, except that we don't have a phoneme quite like their R, which to my ears sounds like a D, L, and R all smashed together. But these side-eyes are mostly fair, I think. It's like Americans prounouncing France as "Frawhce", or Paris as "Pahdee". Ostentatious and pretentious, for an English-speaker. And Lindsey's provocative "EYE-ran" is very present in some locations, I think because GHWB and GWB's affected pronunciations were pounded into the American consciousness during Gulf Wars 1 and 2. Although Reagan did it too, IIRC, and I'm not sure about Clinton.
thewhitetulip 7mo ago
Well, the rest of the world calls Italy as eetaly. Iran as eeran and Iraq as eeraq It's interesting that Idaho is spoken as Eye-Dahoe. So maybe its a regional thing and not whatever the reel was purporting it to be
- quesera 7mo ago
  I don't think the "rest of the world" does anything consistently! :) But the pronunciation difference between Indiana ("short I", in-dee-ANN-uh) vs Idaho ("long I", EYE-duh-hoe) isn't necessarily meaningful. The letter I just has multiple common pronunciations in English, which I'm told is confusing for learners!

quesera 7mo ago

I didn't think of it in time to update my previous comment, so I'll add another! Decades ago, I knew people who pronounced "Italian" as eye-TAL-yun. They were usually older, sometimes WW2 veterans. This was in an area of the US that has a large Italian immigrant population, FWIW. I don't know if it was due to historical disrespect of Mussolini-era Italy, some contemporary xenophobia, or just simple ignorance. They all pronounced "Italy" in the normal way though.

thewhitetulip 7mo ago
This is hilarious. I don't think this is xenophobia. Otherwise why is Idaho called eyedaho? Maybe its a regional thing or just ignorance.
- quesera 7mo ago
  I agree that ignorance is the most likely explanation. But it's not like these folks didn't grow up with "Italy" and "Italian" being on the radio/TV all the time, spoken correctly by newscasters. So there's a disconnect there, and it's also undeniable that there was an anti-Italian sentiment in the then-previous waves of naturalized immigrants. So I can't say for sure.