11 ms·

This is a nice article, but I think it really managed to miss the point that should be made. I always find it amazing how little power you actually need to live

by leoedin 14y ago

This is a nice article, but I think it really managed to miss the point that should be made. I always find it amazing how little power you actually need to live a near-normal life. With 0 power, you definitely notice it. Once you have enough power to cover some low level lighting and entertainment (perhaps a few hundred watts), the value of any additional power is greatly reduced. The author is right in saying that they don't need a 23kW generator. They probably also don't need a 5kW generator. If they actually investigated the cause of the various power peaks, I bet they could disable or replace that usage with something else. A graph is nice, but a few labels ("this is where we turn the kettle on", "this is when we get home from work") would provide so much more information. Just a little power management could probably cut peak power down to a couple of kW, and slightly more effort could get it lower still. Beyond heating (which is woefully inefficient if electrical), there's very little that a person (or family) need at any one time that draws above a kW.

aes256 14y ago
I see your point, but you seem to be forgetting things like refrigerators, freezers, air conditioning units, etc. Granted you can survive without these devices, but it may be thoroughly unpleasant, result in an awful lot of spoilt food, and if a power outage is longer term, having to significantly adjust your eating habits.
- schiffern 14y ago
  >refrigerators, freezers That's easy. My (old) fridge/freezer used about 80 watts when averaged over time (peak is 300W when self-defrosting). There are Energy Star refrigerators that use only 34 watts averaged.[1] >air conditioning units This is certainly true for now. Over the long term, low power passive cooling can be surprisingly effective. Taking advantage of evaporation, diurnal temperature changes, "wind chill", thermal mass, phase changes, passive geothermal, and solar gain reduction have the potential to provide comparable comfort for a lot less energy. A small personal anecdote: in college I had no AC, so I would circulate night air through my apartment ($15 fan + $5 timer). It reliably kept it 5-10 degrees cooler than it was outside, but doing nothing it was 5 degrees hotter. It cost $6/month, drawing 60 watts on average, even with a very inefficient motor. [1] http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?startNum=1&resultsperpage=20&fuseaction=refrig.search_products_submit&pd_code=RRF&configuration=Top%20Freezer&total_volume_pair=16%2E0%3A19%2E0&sortColumn=PB&sortColumn_order=DESC&layout=default&phase=search http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?startNum=1&resultspe...
wglb 14y ago
Hey..what about my compute cluster in the basement.
Dove 14y ago
The big ones -- at least around here -- are the clothes dryer, the range, and the dishwasher. They're all a kW or more, and it would be a significant inconvenience to do without them. Oh, and the microwave.
- marquis 14y ago
  >clothes dryer, the range, and the dishwasher I've worked and lived under emergency conditions with no power, running off a generator, and the clothes dryer, range and dishwasher were the last things we cared about. Light, telecommunications (we had long-distance antennas) and phone charging were the most critical needs. I've also spent time in 100%-self-powered villages, and with good solar and wind power you can indeed have your dish-washers etc, just not in an emergency when you need to conserve and share energy (people running around sharing newly-charged battery packs was a common sight). Generating electricity isn't really an issue if you have a good solar/wind pack: it's battery. I've often found running a converter from a car has been more efficient than relying on someone's home-built battery pack.
  - Dove 14y ago
    Sure. I've gone camping, too. I'm just saying trying to live normally on a peak power of a couple kW might be optimistic. The dryer alone draws two or three.
    - leoedin 14y ago
      I have never owned a dryer. In the UK owning a clothes dryer is quite unusual - clothes drying racks work quite effectively. I suppose if you decide that you must live a "normal" life, then you can't really change anything about it. If you decide that you want to live a comfortable but low impact life, then there's plenty of things you can do to reduce your peak power.
      - krzyk 14y ago
        Same here in Poland, I would have never seen clothes dryer if I weren't in the US few years ago. Doesn't the use of such dryer make ironing harder?

by leoedin 14y ago

aes256 14y ago

I see your point, but you seem to be forgetting things like refrigerators, freezers, air conditioning units, etc. Granted you can survive without these devices, but it may be thoroughly unpleasant, result in an awful lot of spoilt food, and if a power outage is longer term, having to significantly adjust your eating habits.

schiffern 14y ago
>refrigerators, freezers That's easy. My (old) fridge/freezer used about 80 watts when averaged over time (peak is 300W when self-defrosting). There are Energy Star refrigerators that use only 34 watts averaged.[1] >air conditioning units This is certainly true for now. Over the long term, low power passive cooling can be surprisingly effective. Taking advantage of evaporation, diurnal temperature changes, "wind chill", thermal mass, phase changes, passive geothermal, and solar gain reduction have the potential to provide comparable comfort for a lot less energy. A small personal anecdote: in college I had no AC, so I would circulate night air through my apartment ($15 fan + $5 timer). It reliably kept it 5-10 degrees cooler than it was outside, but doing nothing it was 5 degrees hotter. It cost $6/month, drawing 60 watts on average, even with a very inefficient motor. [1] http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?startNum=1&resultsperpage=20&fuseaction=refrig.search_products_submit&pd_code=RRF&configuration=Top%20Freezer&total_volume_pair=16%2E0%3A19%2E0&sortColumn=PB&sortColumn_order=DESC&layout=default&phase=search http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?startNum=1&resultspe...

wglb 14y ago

Hey..what about my compute cluster in the basement.

Dove 14y ago

The big ones -- at least around here -- are the clothes dryer, the range, and the dishwasher. They're all a kW or more, and it would be a significant inconvenience to do without them. Oh, and the microwave.

marquis 14y ago
>clothes dryer, the range, and the dishwasher I've worked and lived under emergency conditions with no power, running off a generator, and the clothes dryer, range and dishwasher were the last things we cared about. Light, telecommunications (we had long-distance antennas) and phone charging were the most critical needs. I've also spent time in 100%-self-powered villages, and with good solar and wind power you can indeed have your dish-washers etc, just not in an emergency when you need to conserve and share energy (people running around sharing newly-charged battery packs was a common sight). Generating electricity isn't really an issue if you have a good solar/wind pack: it's battery. I've often found running a converter from a car has been more efficient than relying on someone's home-built battery pack.
- Dove 14y ago
  Sure. I've gone camping, too. I'm just saying trying to live normally on a peak power of a couple kW might be optimistic. The dryer alone draws two or three.
  - leoedin 14y ago
    I have never owned a dryer. In the UK owning a clothes dryer is quite unusual - clothes drying racks work quite effectively. I suppose if you decide that you must live a "normal" life, then you can't really change anything about it. If you decide that you want to live a comfortable but low impact life, then there's plenty of things you can do to reduce your peak power.
    - krzyk 14y ago
      Same here in Poland, I would have never seen clothes dryer if I weren't in the US few years ago. Doesn't the use of such dryer make ironing harder?