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I write in all kinds of languages professionally and have been doing this sort of thing for a long time (since I was 9 and I'm now 31), so, I'm mostly over the

by Cacti 14y ago

I write in all kinds of languages professionally and have been doing this sort of thing for a long time (since I was 9 and I'm now 31), so, I'm mostly over the language war thing. Yes, I prefer some languages over others. Or certain languages in certain situations. But I try not to let my opinions get out of hand. Everything is pretty much the same anyway. Java? I can see the appeal. It's really come a long way. The only thing I can't get over about Java is the goddamned verbosity of it. It's _excruciating_ to write anything in Java. Yes, I know. Use a modern IDE. The namespaces are designed that way for a reason. Just deal with it. It's not a product of Java itself but of the libraries. Blah blah. It's still a painful environment to deal with and, with developer time several factors more important that just about anything else, I value my time highly and I'm not going to waste it on AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean bullshit. Now, yeah. If you're a huge corporation that is bumping up against the law of large numbers, where most of your developers are mediocre and yet still have to work together, then I guess Java is OK.

vsync 14y ago
I've found things like Lombok and LambdaJ to be super helpful as far as verbosity. One thing that does frustrate me is that the compiler enforces a target bytecode level at least as high as your source version. Meaning that even the simpler syntax for initializing generics isn't allowed even though it's pure syntactic sugar and has no impact on the generated bytecode.
gurkendoktor 14y ago
> where most of your developers are mediocre Does anyone have evidence (including anecdotes) that Java 7 is simple enough for mediocre developers? Every new feature in Java that I have seen, starting from and including generics, seem like the non-orthogonal hacks that make C++ so frustrating to learn.

by Cacti 14y ago

vsync 14y ago

I've found things like Lombok and LambdaJ to be super helpful as far as verbosity. One thing that does frustrate me is that the compiler enforces a target bytecode level at least as high as your source version. Meaning that even the simpler syntax for initializing generics isn't allowed even though it's pure syntactic sugar and has no impact on the generated bytecode.

gurkendoktor 14y ago

> where most of your developers are mediocre Does anyone have evidence (including anecdotes) that Java 7 is simple enough for mediocre developers? Every new feature in Java that I have seen, starting from and including generics, seem like the non-orthogonal hacks that make C++ so frustrating to learn.