6 ms·

And yet as an employer (not in the UK though) I have a hard time finding talented developers.

by cbgrey 14y ago

wheaties 14y ago
Here's the three step trick that works across the board: 1. Pay more 2. Offer amazing benefits. 3. Sponsor tech events and become active in a tech community. That's what I say to everyone who "can't find anyone decent." Decent people can pick and choose at the moment. If they aren't choosing you, you're not giving them enough reasons.
- mickeyp 14y ago
  Actually, you know, you just need #1 if you're hiring people who aren't in their early 20s, or something. Most "help us solve hard problems!" technology firms/startups in London simply don't pay that well, and that makes it hard to attract the older, experienced developers with families. Hiring contractors is another way of quickly getting access to a very large pool of skilled workers, but I find that most smaller companies never bother, even though the TOC of having a contractor on board may not be all that much more than a permanent employee.
- ryanhuff 14y ago
  Just to add to your post, an (unfortunate) reality for many companies looking for good back-office (IT) developers is that many of the most qualified just aren't interested in the company's work or industry, which requires even more focus on #1 and #2. In my experience, many of these same companies don't understand why they can't find people, but can't fathom addressing #1 and #2.
yardie 14y ago
I assume by talented you mean experienced. There is also the other talent of showing promise, but most companies don't bother with that and prefer the ones that the ones that come out the womb as objc rockstars.
- michaelt 14y ago
  Presumably cbgrey means "talented" because "experience" is often used to mean "not a fresh graduate" and this is a thread about graduate employment rates. They can have been given their powers by a cat-god in an acid-induced hallucination for all I care, as long as they can pass a technical interview.
- TeamMCS 14y ago
  I see this a lot. Everyone expects a rock star who knows their entire stack. If you don't know their stack to the nth degree you are classified a junior and get paid 30-45k which is a joke in London. People like myself end up self-employed earning multiples whilst hearing on each job, "would you go perm for xyz?" (that boat has usually sailed). The reality is companies need to get the right people in. Send them on courses, get them involved and pay them properly. Use contractors to fill the gap, pay the high rates then remove them when 'the right people' are ready (and/or offer contractors an appropriate compensation to go perm) [edit] I think the London market is way out of wack. I've had offers to go perm at the equiv of 3~ months freelance pay, it just doesn't make even remote sense. Even more so when uncertainty is rife.
  - coopdog 14y ago
    That's the same realization I came to, that it's actually less risky to be a contractor than an employee. Better to be paid more and have a nest egg for the rainy days than live day to day on a salary and always fear the entire department getting chopped one day for reasons beyond your control.

And yet as an employer (not in the UK though) I have a hard time finding talented developers.

by cbgrey 14y ago

And yet as an employer (not in the UK though) I have a hard time finding talented developers.

Here's the three step trick that works across the board: 1. Pay more 2. Offer amazing benefits. 3. Sponsor tech events and become active in a tech community. That's what I say to everyone who "can't find anyone decent." Decent people can pick and choose at the moment. If they aren't choosing you, you're not giving them enough reasons.

mickeyp 14y ago
Actually, you know, you just need #1 if you're hiring people who aren't in their early 20s, or something. Most "help us solve hard problems!" technology firms/startups in London simply don't pay that well, and that makes it hard to attract the older, experienced developers with families. Hiring contractors is another way of quickly getting access to a very large pool of skilled workers, but I find that most smaller companies never bother, even though the TOC of having a contractor on board may not be all that much more than a permanent employee.
ryanhuff 14y ago
Just to add to your post, an (unfortunate) reality for many companies looking for good back-office (IT) developers is that many of the most qualified just aren't interested in the company's work or industry, which requires even more focus on #1 and #2. In my experience, many of these same companies don't understand why they can't find people, but can't fathom addressing #1 and #2.

yardie 14y ago

I assume by talented you mean experienced. There is also the other talent of showing promise, but most companies don't bother with that and prefer the ones that the ones that come out the womb as objc rockstars.

michaelt 14y ago
Presumably cbgrey means "talented" because "experience" is often used to mean "not a fresh graduate" and this is a thread about graduate employment rates. They can have been given their powers by a cat-god in an acid-induced hallucination for all I care, as long as they can pass a technical interview.
TeamMCS 14y ago
I see this a lot. Everyone expects a rock star who knows their entire stack. If you don't know their stack to the nth degree you are classified a junior and get paid 30-45k which is a joke in London. People like myself end up self-employed earning multiples whilst hearing on each job, "would you go perm for xyz?" (that boat has usually sailed). The reality is companies need to get the right people in. Send them on courses, get them involved and pay them properly. Use contractors to fill the gap, pay the high rates then remove them when 'the right people' are ready (and/or offer contractors an appropriate compensation to go perm) [edit] I think the London market is way out of wack. I've had offers to go perm at the equiv of 3~ months freelance pay, it just doesn't make even remote sense. Even more so when uncertainty is rife.
- coopdog 14y ago
  That's the same realization I came to, that it's actually less risky to be a contractor than an employee. Better to be paid more and have a nest egg for the rainy days than live day to day on a salary and always fear the entire department getting chopped one day for reasons beyond your control.