5 ms·

It's been a talking point specific to the voting system in the US, strangely no other country seems to think it's an issue and as soon as the topic changes no o

It's been a talking point specific to the voting system in the US, strangely no other country seems to think it's an issue and as soon as the topic changes no one in the US has an issue requiring IDs for things.

mkehrt 7mo ago
Voting is a civil right. We need to have a system that allows everyone who is allowed to vote, to vote. Many people don't have IDs and it is an onerous process to get one. Any system that requires IDs for voting suppresses these people's civil rights.
- zahlman 7mo ago
  > Many people don't have IDs and it is an onerous process to get one. I have seen this constantly claimed, and never reasonably evidenced. It's also hard to believe the kind of American exceptionalism that supposedly causes these problems that everyone else can easily solve, despite an environment that is clearly heavily politically invested in solving it (because that also avoids the appearance of racism). Meanwhile, American proponents of voter ID can readily find people including among the supposedly discriminated-against groups who will testify to the contrary.
  - squeaky-clean 7mo ago
    Under the text of the proposed SAVE Act, drivers licenses or state ID's wouldn't be enough to count as a voting ID. In Canada a drivers license is enough to vote.
  - CJefferson 7mo ago
    Solving it in other countries often involved a standard id that everyone uses for many things, so it becomes a standard party of life. Many people in the US, from what I can tell, don't want that.
  - mkehrt 7mo ago
    IDs cost money. How do people with no income get one if they don't have one? How do they get access to the necessary documents? In any case, it's not on me to show that they shouldn't need ID. It's on the proponents of ID laws to do so, and they have utterly failed.
- lefra 7mo ago
  There's a trivial solution to this: IDs should be provided by the government for free.
  - Muromec 7mo ago
    Last time I had to get the ID (sea floor countries in Europe), it was something like a hundred eurobucks, about 20 minutes of my time and two trips to the place during kinda sorta business hours. But then again, I have to use my 3 hour lunch breaks for something besides drinking beer.
    - mkehrt 7mo ago
      So how would you have gotten it if you were homeless with no income?
- triceratops 7mo ago
  So make it a non-onerous process.
IX-103 7mo ago
No other country is quite as heterogeneous as the US. And there is a significant history in the US of using restrictions around voting to disenfranchise certain ethnicities. That makes any restriction around voting a sensitive topic in the US. Proponents of voter ID claim it is needed to prevent fraud, while opponents point out that there's not enough fraud for it to be worth the cost. Note that countries such as Australia, Canada, and New Zealand also didn't require voter ID. First-world countries that do require ID to vote have systems in place to ensure that getting that ID is easy even for poorer people - such as automatically sending the ID to the voter by mail if the government requires you to report your residence or filing out the necessary forms once, before turning 18.
- dirasieb 7mo ago
  > No other country is quite as heterogeneous as the US. there's no scientific link between race and the ability to go to a DMV once every 10 years
  - Muromec 7mo ago
    If you have to go to a specific DMV at a specific time, it's a link to a ZIP code and economical situation (i.e. having enough time during work hours just for that). That's a good enough proxy for race. Bonus points if you can also make a specific DMV for a specific ZIP code shittier experience on purpose. Nobody would ever try to do that in a-country, right.
    - dataflow 7mo ago
      FWIW, I don't think you're really addressing their point. What they're really saying is that they find it implausible that any significant fraction of the population is genuinely unable to go to the DMV once every 10 years. You're not really providing a counterargument, but rather just arguing that going to the DMV is more difficult for some people than others. Sure, but that's true for pretty much everything -- even just putting food on the table is harder when you're poor, yet people still find ways to do it.
CJefferson 7mo ago
It's absolutely a taking point in the UK, although here it is down class and party lines rather than race lines, but that is just because different countries have different natural ways to discuss things. It's the same basic idea, richer people are more likely to already have an id (drivers licence, passport).

mkehrt 7mo ago

Voting is a civil right. We need to have a system that allows everyone who is allowed to vote, to vote. Many people don't have IDs and it is an onerous process to get one. Any system that requires IDs for voting suppresses these people's civil rights.

zahlman 7mo ago
> Many people don't have IDs and it is an onerous process to get one. I have seen this constantly claimed, and never reasonably evidenced. It's also hard to believe the kind of American exceptionalism that supposedly causes these problems that everyone else can easily solve, despite an environment that is clearly heavily politically invested in solving it (because that also avoids the appearance of racism). Meanwhile, American proponents of voter ID can readily find people including among the supposedly discriminated-against groups who will testify to the contrary.
- squeaky-clean 7mo ago
  Under the text of the proposed SAVE Act, drivers licenses or state ID's wouldn't be enough to count as a voting ID. In Canada a drivers license is enough to vote.
- CJefferson 7mo ago
  Solving it in other countries often involved a standard id that everyone uses for many things, so it becomes a standard party of life. Many people in the US, from what I can tell, don't want that.
- mkehrt 7mo ago
  IDs cost money. How do people with no income get one if they don't have one? How do they get access to the necessary documents? In any case, it's not on me to show that they shouldn't need ID. It's on the proponents of ID laws to do so, and they have utterly failed.
lefra 7mo ago
There's a trivial solution to this: IDs should be provided by the government for free.
- Muromec 7mo ago
  Last time I had to get the ID (sea floor countries in Europe), it was something like a hundred eurobucks, about 20 minutes of my time and two trips to the place during kinda sorta business hours. But then again, I have to use my 3 hour lunch breaks for something besides drinking beer.
  - mkehrt 7mo ago
    So how would you have gotten it if you were homeless with no income?
triceratops 7mo ago
So make it a non-onerous process.

IX-103 7mo ago

No other country is quite as heterogeneous as the US. And there is a significant history in the US of using restrictions around voting to disenfranchise certain ethnicities. That makes any restriction around voting a sensitive topic in the US. Proponents of voter ID claim it is needed to prevent fraud, while opponents point out that there's not enough fraud for it to be worth the cost. Note that countries such as Australia, Canada, and New Zealand also didn't require voter ID. First-world countries that do require ID to vote have systems in place to ensure that getting that ID is easy even for poorer people - such as automatically sending the ID to the voter by mail if the government requires you to report your residence or filing out the necessary forms once, before turning 18.

dirasieb 7mo ago
> No other country is quite as heterogeneous as the US. there's no scientific link between race and the ability to go to a DMV once every 10 years
- Muromec 7mo ago
  If you have to go to a specific DMV at a specific time, it's a link to a ZIP code and economical situation (i.e. having enough time during work hours just for that). That's a good enough proxy for race. Bonus points if you can also make a specific DMV for a specific ZIP code shittier experience on purpose. Nobody would ever try to do that in a-country, right.
  - dataflow 7mo ago
    FWIW, I don't think you're really addressing their point. What they're really saying is that they find it implausible that any significant fraction of the population is genuinely unable to go to the DMV once every 10 years. You're not really providing a counterargument, but rather just arguing that going to the DMV is more difficult for some people than others. Sure, but that's true for pretty much everything -- even just putting food on the table is harder when you're poor, yet people still find ways to do it.

CJefferson 7mo ago

It's absolutely a taking point in the UK, although here it is down class and party lines rather than race lines, but that is just because different countries have different natural ways to discuss things. It's the same basic idea, richer people are more likely to already have an id (drivers licence, passport).