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>> The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. One of the first things Steve Jobs immediately did aft

>> The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. One of the first things Steve Jobs immediately did after returning to Apple in 1997 was to kill most of Apple's product line-up, which had exploded in his absence. Too bad he's not around to save them from the same over-segmentation anymore.

thewebguyd 7mo ago
The goal is different. Jobs wanted to make the product spread simple to understand. Apple's current method is a pricing ladder, make it simple to spend $200+ more than you planned. MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Every product lineup is designed that way. It gets you thinking "eh, what's an extra $200" and slowly moves you up until you land at the highest tier. Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to.
- snuxoll 7mo ago
  > Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to. Don't underestimate how much of a bitch it is to maintain all the separate SKUs. This isn't the old CTO days where you had: 1 chassis, N mainboards for different CPU/GPU combinations, a bunch of SODIMM's of varying capacities, and a couple of different fixed storage drives to toss in. When any given MBP has 2 CPU/GPU options, multiple memory options, and multiple storage options, with everything being soldered to the board? Honestly, the Neo is the one product in their portable lineup that doesn't cause a massive headache for logistics. But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning.
  - mschuster91 7mo ago
    > But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning. Sure... but when looking at sales numbers, HP and Apple are tied by monthly sales volume on Amazon [1], with everyone else being widely behind them. But HP has almost 300 models, Apple much, much less - and Apple can react much, much faster because they almost directly run the production sites and mostly sell themselves, so they can produce an initial run of products and whenever a store or a region runs out of one specific variant, they just tell Foxconn to, say, instead of making a run with black casings they now make a day worth of gray casings, ship that onto a plane and that's it. HP, Dell et al? Their inventory gets distributed by an intricate web of middlemen who all need buffer. [1] https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-laptop-brands-on-amazon-usa-apple-reigns-in-revenue-hp-leads-in-volume-and-variety/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-...
- bombcar 7mo ago
  Those kind of pricing ladders are "fine" because at no point do you have to really make a decision. The problem is when it splits and you have a tree where what branch you go down precludes you from options on the other branch you might want.
- lotsofpulp 7mo ago
  > MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Yes >Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Disagree. The Air offers additional utility and longevity for the price, the Pro offers nothing that 90% of people will ever perceive. I know a ton of people for whom the $500 would be nothing, but still get an Air rather than a Pro. Obviously, that’s not great data, but I feel like the jump from Air to Pro just doesn’t happen or won’t happen compared to jumps from Neo to Air.
- NetMageSCW 7mo ago
  You keep saying $200 extra - I don’t think you know what that means.
- benjiro3000 7mo ago
  [dead]
- tpmoney 7mo ago
  I think you are completely misremembering what the Apple product lineup looked like even with the Steve Jobs cleanup. At its absolute simplest, it contained the iMac, iBook, PowerMac and PowerBook lines. Within each line was a "Good", "Better" and "Best" pre-configured model each being a few hundred different from the other and each of those models was further configurable to add additional storage / memory etc. That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 when the 14 inch iBooks, the 17 inch iMacs and the eMacs were introduced, followed by the 12 and 17 inch powerbooks in 2003. By 2005 they had also introduced the Mac Mini. And again most of these had a "good", "better", "best" variant, though in some cases (like the first 17 inch iMacs, the "best" tier was also the next model variant). Apple's lineup is undeniably more complicated now than it has been in the past, but the simplification was never really about cutting model types down, so much as it was about making distinct model categories that people could easily understand why they would pick one or the other. I think they still do a relatively good job at retaining that distinction, and I agree that the iPad lineup is probably the most muddled. Though special mention goes to the "Macbook Pro with M4 Pro" branding, which anyone should have caught and thought that maybe they needed a better moniker than "Pro" for the processor variant (and of course also, is the "Pro", the "Max" or the "Ultra" the best?)
  - einr 7mo ago
    That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 Don’t forget the G4 Cube (most people do ;) which was also around at this time for reasons that are mostly unclear (looks cool though)
0x457 7mo ago
I think It makes sense for iPad line up to be this way. Very clear feature segmentation that make sense. Most is directly result of underlying hardware. For consumer it's also very easy: - decide on size - go from your budget - if still too many SKUs go by features What features? Thunderbolt, Screen, Apple Pencil, Face ID Alternatively if you know what features you want, start with that. If you're struggling to choose which iPad you need then you might want an iPad for the sake of having an iPad (in which case get Air).
- wlesieutre 7mo ago
  Yeah, I don't think this lineup is particular crazy: - 8.3", one tier (mini) - 11", three tiers (iPad, Air, Pro) - 13", two tiers (Air, Pro) Could you spend the same amount of money on a regular 11" iPad with a lot of storage, or an iPad Air with less storage? Sure. Some people want lots of storage. Other people don't care but want a wide gamut screen, faster processor, and better pen capabilities. It's nothing like trying to pick a laptop from Dell where you have to spend hours digging around to even figure out what your options are. If someone asked me which iPad to buy we could figure it out in under 5 minutes.
  - jonplackett 7mo ago
    Also it’s just one adjective per device. Compare that to the dell pro max premium
    - wlesieutre 7mo ago
      Hilariously when I looked that one up the Dell store page says Dell Pro Max 16 Premium Laptop Model: MA14250 I think they have the model number wrong and corresponds to a 14” version, because further down the “order code” is bts101_ma16250_usx Even Dell can’t keep their computers straight. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma16250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16... Edit: confirmed, here is a different laptop listed with the same model number https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma14250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14...
etchalon 7mo ago
I'd reference all the iPod models Steve oversaw the introduction of (iPod, iPod Nano, iPod shuffle, iPod Mini, iPod Classic, iPod Touch)
- asymco 7mo ago
  With iPod line Apple was experimenting with completely new form factor, not so much with iPad or MacBook.
  - etchalon 7mo ago
    The Neo is a different form factor than the Air is a different form factor from the 14 inch is a different form factor than the 16. "No, it's not! It's a laptop!" And most iPods were iPods. The iPod touch was just an iPhone, and the shuffle lacked a screen.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
labcomputer 7mo ago
With respect, I think you're misremembering the product lineup in the 1994/5/6 era. Back then, Apple had 16 to 32 distinct models[1] of just desktop computer (just the desktops!) with little to distinguish them. In many cases, the exact same internal hardware was shipped in two different boxes as two models aimed at two different customers (LC/Performa/Centris/Quadra/Workgroup Server). For example, the "LC 550" and "Performa 550" were the exact same computer[2] with two different names on the front, meant to be sold to the educational and home markets. That's extremely confusing for the consumer. You had the same internal hardware being sold for two different price points, and computers with significantly different performance sold at the same price point. You don't want your customer to get analysis paralysis and give up before they purchase. The point of Jobs's simplification is that there is one option for you to pick at a given price point in a given category of tablet/laptop/desktop, and that pricing and capability are clearly aligned. I don't see where Apple has gotten away from that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series

thewebguyd 7mo ago

The goal is different. Jobs wanted to make the product spread simple to understand. Apple's current method is a pricing ladder, make it simple to spend $200+ more than you planned. MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Every product lineup is designed that way. It gets you thinking "eh, what's an extra $200" and slowly moves you up until you land at the highest tier. Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to.

snuxoll 7mo ago
> Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to. Don't underestimate how much of a bitch it is to maintain all the separate SKUs. This isn't the old CTO days where you had: 1 chassis, N mainboards for different CPU/GPU combinations, a bunch of SODIMM's of varying capacities, and a couple of different fixed storage drives to toss in. When any given MBP has 2 CPU/GPU options, multiple memory options, and multiple storage options, with everything being soldered to the board? Honestly, the Neo is the one product in their portable lineup that doesn't cause a massive headache for logistics. But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning.
- mschuster91 7mo ago
  > But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning. Sure... but when looking at sales numbers, HP and Apple are tied by monthly sales volume on Amazon [1], with everyone else being widely behind them. But HP has almost 300 models, Apple much, much less - and Apple can react much, much faster because they almost directly run the production sites and mostly sell themselves, so they can produce an initial run of products and whenever a store or a region runs out of one specific variant, they just tell Foxconn to, say, instead of making a run with black casings they now make a day worth of gray casings, ship that onto a plane and that's it. HP, Dell et al? Their inventory gets distributed by an intricate web of middlemen who all need buffer. [1] https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-laptop-brands-on-amazon-usa-apple-reigns-in-revenue-hp-leads-in-volume-and-variety/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-...
bombcar 7mo ago
Those kind of pricing ladders are "fine" because at no point do you have to really make a decision. The problem is when it splits and you have a tree where what branch you go down precludes you from options on the other branch you might want.
lotsofpulp 7mo ago
> MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Yes >Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Disagree. The Air offers additional utility and longevity for the price, the Pro offers nothing that 90% of people will ever perceive. I know a ton of people for whom the $500 would be nothing, but still get an Air rather than a Pro. Obviously, that’s not great data, but I feel like the jump from Air to Pro just doesn’t happen or won’t happen compared to jumps from Neo to Air.
NetMageSCW 7mo ago
You keep saying $200 extra - I don’t think you know what that means.
benjiro3000 7mo ago
[dead]
tpmoney 7mo ago
I think you are completely misremembering what the Apple product lineup looked like even with the Steve Jobs cleanup. At its absolute simplest, it contained the iMac, iBook, PowerMac and PowerBook lines. Within each line was a "Good", "Better" and "Best" pre-configured model each being a few hundred different from the other and each of those models was further configurable to add additional storage / memory etc. That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 when the 14 inch iBooks, the 17 inch iMacs and the eMacs were introduced, followed by the 12 and 17 inch powerbooks in 2003. By 2005 they had also introduced the Mac Mini. And again most of these had a "good", "better", "best" variant, though in some cases (like the first 17 inch iMacs, the "best" tier was also the next model variant). Apple's lineup is undeniably more complicated now than it has been in the past, but the simplification was never really about cutting model types down, so much as it was about making distinct model categories that people could easily understand why they would pick one or the other. I think they still do a relatively good job at retaining that distinction, and I agree that the iPad lineup is probably the most muddled. Though special mention goes to the "Macbook Pro with M4 Pro" branding, which anyone should have caught and thought that maybe they needed a better moniker than "Pro" for the processor variant (and of course also, is the "Pro", the "Max" or the "Ultra" the best?)
- einr 7mo ago
  That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 Don’t forget the G4 Cube (most people do ;) which was also around at this time for reasons that are mostly unclear (looks cool though)

0x457 7mo ago

I think It makes sense for iPad line up to be this way. Very clear feature segmentation that make sense. Most is directly result of underlying hardware. For consumer it's also very easy: - decide on size - go from your budget - if still too many SKUs go by features What features? Thunderbolt, Screen, Apple Pencil, Face ID Alternatively if you know what features you want, start with that. If you're struggling to choose which iPad you need then you might want an iPad for the sake of having an iPad (in which case get Air).

wlesieutre 7mo ago
Yeah, I don't think this lineup is particular crazy: - 8.3", one tier (mini) - 11", three tiers (iPad, Air, Pro) - 13", two tiers (Air, Pro) Could you spend the same amount of money on a regular 11" iPad with a lot of storage, or an iPad Air with less storage? Sure. Some people want lots of storage. Other people don't care but want a wide gamut screen, faster processor, and better pen capabilities. It's nothing like trying to pick a laptop from Dell where you have to spend hours digging around to even figure out what your options are. If someone asked me which iPad to buy we could figure it out in under 5 minutes.
- jonplackett 7mo ago
  Also it’s just one adjective per device. Compare that to the dell pro max premium
  - wlesieutre 7mo ago
    Hilariously when I looked that one up the Dell store page says Dell Pro Max 16 Premium Laptop Model: MA14250 I think they have the model number wrong and corresponds to a 14” version, because further down the “order code” is bts101_ma16250_usx Even Dell can’t keep their computers straight. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma16250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16... Edit: confirmed, here is a different laptop listed with the same model number https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma14250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14...

etchalon 7mo ago

I'd reference all the iPod models Steve oversaw the introduction of (iPod, iPod Nano, iPod shuffle, iPod Mini, iPod Classic, iPod Touch)

asymco 7mo ago
With iPod line Apple was experimenting with completely new form factor, not so much with iPad or MacBook.
- etchalon 7mo ago
  The Neo is a different form factor than the Air is a different form factor from the 14 inch is a different form factor than the 16. "No, it's not! It's a laptop!" And most iPods were iPods. The iPod touch was just an iPhone, and the shuffle lacked a screen.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

labcomputer 7mo ago

With respect, I think you're misremembering the product lineup in the 1994/5/6 era. Back then, Apple had 16 to 32 distinct models[1] of just desktop computer (just the desktops!) with little to distinguish them. In many cases, the exact same internal hardware was shipped in two different boxes as two models aimed at two different customers (LC/Performa/Centris/Quadra/Workgroup Server). For example, the "LC 550" and "Performa 550" were the exact same computer[2] with two different names on the front, meant to be sold to the educational and home markets. That's extremely confusing for the consumer. You had the same internal hardware being sold for two different price points, and computers with significantly different performance sold at the same price point. You don't want your customer to get analysis paralysis and give up before they purchase. The point of Jobs's simplification is that there is one option for you to pick at a given price point in a given category of tablet/laptop/desktop, and that pricing and capability are clearly aligned. I don't see where Apple has gotten away from that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series