4 ms·

Cute, and while I will agree that Apple hardware is generally superior or at least an excellent value, and OS X is miles beyond Windows in usability, I can't in

by ryandvm 7mo ago

Cute, and while I will agree that Apple hardware is generally superior or at least an excellent value, and OS X is miles beyond Windows in usability, I can't in good conscience recommend a Mac on principle. They impose obsessive control over their walled garden, constant pressure to use Apple ecosystem products, and they are staunchly opposed to interoperability regardless of it being an obviously anti-consumer tactical moat. Buying a Mac in spite of such anti-consumer behavior reminds me of voting for a bad person because you like their policies.

Kirby64 7mo ago
As opposed to Microsoft, the good guys right now? I don’t see how incessant privacy violations, selling your data, and general shovelware behavior of Windows 11 is better. In many ways, it’s much worse in my view.
- benjiro3000 7mo ago
  [dead]
- ryandvm 7mo ago
  Nah, as opposed to Linux (for me).
  - Kirby64 7mo ago
    Linux isn't a real choice for 99.9% of the population. If you're advising someone else on buying a laptop in an authority sense, rather than a colleague sense... telling someone to buy a Linux laptop (or, buy a laptop and put Linux on it), is a recipe for being tech support for them forever.
bell-cot 7mo ago
> voting for a bad person because you like their policies. These days, you're lucky if you get to pick from "Bad", "Very Bad", and "Worst". (BTW, does Mr. Bad look like he'll competently implement and honestly administer his policies? 'Cause without those, "good" policies ain't worth squat):
retired 7mo ago
A Mac isn’t really a walled garden though. You don’t even need an Apple account to use one. Unlike Windows.
- WorldPeas 7mo ago
  but to make a binary for it? You do. Even if it's not-for-profit. Why do you think web interfaces are so popular for OSS, a lot easier for the code to be JIT'd and run in a browser than pay a $99 vig for something you did in 10 days to speed up a process for yourself etc.
  - 1000100_1000101 7mo ago
    I compile and run utilities on my Mac all the time, and I've never spent a penny on dev tools or unlocks. Yes, there's a fee to get access to the App Store, but almost nobody on the Mac uses the App Store... the fee is mainly for putting stuff on iOS (and likely watchOS, tvOS). The fee also gets you the absolute latest Xcode, but go back one version, and it's entirely free. On Mac, you can install brew, and use it to install gcc, clang, qemu, whatever utilities you want. You used to need the developer fee to put stuff on your iOS device at all, but these days you can put stuff on your personal devices without a fee, but the binary expires in a week... enough to learn and debug, but not ideal for a personal tool. That's about the only annoyance where the fee comes up... long term deployment to iOS.
    - apitman 7mo ago
      > you can put stuff on your personal devices without a fee, but the binary expires in a week... enough to learn and debug, but not ideal for a personal tool This sounds like dystopian cyberpunk written in the 80s
    - WorldPeas 7mo ago
      look what I "get" to do with my "own" device
  - tom_ 7mo ago
    You're sort-of right, I think, because you do need an Apple account to sign in to the Mac App Store to get current Xcode in the first place - but the $99 is entirely optional! For distributing your program without the fee, you'll probably moan about the hoops that people have to jump through to run your stuff: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mh40616/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mh40616/mac - and I can't say I love this myself, but people can run your stuff, and no fee necessary. (I've got a couple of (somewhat niche) FOSS things for macOS, and I build the releases using GitHub Actions with whatever default stuff the thing uses, then make up DMGs that people can download from the GitHub releases page. I added a bit in the documentation about visiting the security dialog if you're blocked - and that seems to have been sufficient.)
sib 7mo ago
>> voting for a bad person because you like their policies Is it better to (1) vote for a bad person whose policies you believe are correct or (2) vote for a good person whose policies you believe are wrong? I'd pick (1) every time. (Sure, I'd love a good person whose policies are right...)
raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
What “walled garden” burdens a Mac user? And what interoperability are you looking for? There is nothing proprietary about Thunderbolt, USB C, Bluetooth etc

by ryandvm 7mo ago

Kirby64 7mo ago

As opposed to Microsoft, the good guys right now? I don’t see how incessant privacy violations, selling your data, and general shovelware behavior of Windows 11 is better. In many ways, it’s much worse in my view.

benjiro3000 7mo ago
[dead]
ryandvm 7mo ago
Nah, as opposed to Linux (for me).
- Kirby64 7mo ago
  Linux isn't a real choice for 99.9% of the population. If you're advising someone else on buying a laptop in an authority sense, rather than a colleague sense... telling someone to buy a Linux laptop (or, buy a laptop and put Linux on it), is a recipe for being tech support for them forever.

bell-cot 7mo ago

> voting for a bad person because you like their policies. These days, you're lucky if you get to pick from "Bad", "Very Bad", and "Worst". (BTW, does Mr. Bad look like he'll competently implement and honestly administer his policies? 'Cause without those, "good" policies ain't worth squat):

retired 7mo ago

A Mac isn’t really a walled garden though. You don’t even need an Apple account to use one. Unlike Windows.

WorldPeas 7mo ago
but to make a binary for it? You do. Even if it's not-for-profit. Why do you think web interfaces are so popular for OSS, a lot easier for the code to be JIT'd and run in a browser than pay a $99 vig for something you did in 10 days to speed up a process for yourself etc.
- 1000100_1000101 7mo ago
  I compile and run utilities on my Mac all the time, and I've never spent a penny on dev tools or unlocks. Yes, there's a fee to get access to the App Store, but almost nobody on the Mac uses the App Store... the fee is mainly for putting stuff on iOS (and likely watchOS, tvOS). The fee also gets you the absolute latest Xcode, but go back one version, and it's entirely free. On Mac, you can install brew, and use it to install gcc, clang, qemu, whatever utilities you want. You used to need the developer fee to put stuff on your iOS device at all, but these days you can put stuff on your personal devices without a fee, but the binary expires in a week... enough to learn and debug, but not ideal for a personal tool. That's about the only annoyance where the fee comes up... long term deployment to iOS.
  - apitman 7mo ago
    > you can put stuff on your personal devices without a fee, but the binary expires in a week... enough to learn and debug, but not ideal for a personal tool This sounds like dystopian cyberpunk written in the 80s
  - WorldPeas 7mo ago
    look what I "get" to do with my "own" device
- tom_ 7mo ago
  You're sort-of right, I think, because you do need an Apple account to sign in to the Mac App Store to get current Xcode in the first place - but the $99 is entirely optional! For distributing your program without the fee, you'll probably moan about the hoops that people have to jump through to run your stuff: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mh40616/mac https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mh40616/mac - and I can't say I love this myself, but people can run your stuff, and no fee necessary. (I've got a couple of (somewhat niche) FOSS things for macOS, and I build the releases using GitHub Actions with whatever default stuff the thing uses, then make up DMGs that people can download from the GitHub releases page. I added a bit in the documentation about visiting the security dialog if you're blocked - and that seems to have been sufficient.)

sib 7mo ago

>> voting for a bad person because you like their policies Is it better to (1) vote for a bad person whose policies you believe are correct or (2) vote for a good person whose policies you believe are wrong? I'd pick (1) every time. (Sure, I'd love a good person whose policies are right...)

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago

What “walled garden” burdens a Mac user? And what interoperability are you looking for? There is nothing proprietary about Thunderbolt, USB C, Bluetooth etc