4 ms·

Here in Toronto area city of Vaughan pronounced as (/vɔːn/ or /vɑːn/) like in "dawn" or "gone" Imaging me fresh from USSR asking someone how do I get to ... an

by FpUser 7mo ago

Here in Toronto area city of Vaughan pronounced as (/vɔːn/ or /vɑːn/) like in "dawn" or "gone" Imaging me fresh from USSR asking someone how do I get to ... and getting blank stare

bluepeter 7mo ago
That's great. What's also amusing is how you felt it necessary to provide the diacritical pronunciation guide for "Vaughan"... because I think to most native English speakers we can't imagine any other pronunciation!
- FpUser 7mo ago
  I think native English speaker who had never heard of Vaughan (sure we can find some of those) would likely to pronounce it like "Vog-un" - /ˈvɒɡən/ or "Vog-han" - /ˈvɑːɡən/
  - SoftTalker 7mo ago
    No, "gh" is usually silent in English spelling.
    - jhauris 7mo ago
      Laugh, trough, tough, rough. Maybe it should be "Vawfan"
      - oblio 7mo ago
        Ghoul.
        card_zero 7mo ago
        Hiccough. Loughborough, which has it both ways. (Apocryphally pronounced by Australians as "Loogahbaroogah".)
    - toast0 7mo ago
      augh is not as common as ough, but either one can make any sound in the whole syllabary. How about Sequim, WA. Guess how to pronounciate that.
      - philiplu 7mo ago
        Or Puyallup, WA. Those two are definite shibboleth tests in the PNW.
        bluepeter 7mo ago
        Pend Oreille is the eastern WA test for western WA.
        canucker2016 7mo ago
        and for our eastern neighbours: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho (and Boise too) My years of french class steered me wrong there.
        shawn_w 7mo ago
        Des Moines, WA vs Des Moines, IA.
  - b40d-48b2-979e 7mo ago
    No, I don't think they would. I've never heard of Vaughan and assumed one syllable like the parent commenter.
  - trollierworm 7mo ago
    This sent me down a mental rabbit hole, I think it's one of those interesting nuances that are rules that native speakers follow without being able to name it, or know it. I'm a native speaker, and also thought `vawn` was the most obvious pronounciation. I'm guessing it's because `augh` is perceived as a recognizable vowel cluster where `gh` tends to be silent (daughter, caught, naught, taught). The interesting twist for me is that `laugh` is in obvious counter example, until I realized that gh in final position (laugh, rough, enough) is almost always \f\. And further, in words like laughter, roughness, we immediately distinguish a modified root word from the lexical position. Maybe there's also an interesting thread to pull on in that the pattern may be more pronounced for names (e.g. Hughes). Just ruminating here though, I don't have a source for any of this.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
loloquwowndueo 7mo ago
Typical in Toronto - remember there’s only one T in “Toronto”
- FpUser 7mo ago
  ROFL. I ignore this sacred rule
- canucker2016 7mo ago
  ...and the first o is silent, and the remaining o's are pronounced 'a'. But the TV news reporters enunciate every letter in Toronto.
- madcaptenor 7mo ago
  There's also only one T in "Atlanta". (For some people there are none.)
  - brutal_noodle 7mo ago
    Definitely heard "Alana" in the South. On the West cost right now, got a buddy from West Virginia, and even after 20-30-some-odd-years in California, he still says it like that. Among other things he boomhauers.
    - madcaptenor 7mo ago
      I didn't realize "boomhauer" could be verbed.
- brutal_noodle 7mo ago
  'oronto?
nayuki 7mo ago
There are a handful of neighborhood and street names used in Toronto (not necessarily from Toronto) that have unusual pronunciations. Here I'll give some triples of (English spelling, actual pronunciation (IPA), a naive pronunciation (IPA)): (Yonge, [jʌŋ], [jɑndʒ]); (Strachan, [sdʒɹɑn], [ˈsdʒɹa.tʃæn]); (Tecumseth, [tə.ˈkʌm.zi], [ˈti.kəm.sɛθ]); (Markham, [ˈmɑr.kʌm], [ˈmɑrk.hæm]), (Etobicoke, [ɛ.ˈtoʊ.bɪ.koʊ], [ɛ.ˈtoʊ.bɪ.koʊk]). See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2cyg6bFeRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2cyg6bFeRc , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmeDWvwD8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmeDWvwD8M
- glitchc 7mo ago
  That's because some are Indigenous names phoneticized for English speakers (Yonge and Markham on the other hand are entirely English names): Etobicoke. From Adobigok [1] Tecumseh (or Tecumseth). From tecumtha or takhamehse [2] Mississauga. From Misi-zaagiing [3] [1] https://www.etobicokehistorical.com/brief-history-of-etobicoke.html https://www.etobicokehistorical.com/brief-history-of-etobico... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississauga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississauga
rapnie 7mo ago
As a non-native English speaker I wonder if Leicester is naturally pronounced right for the natives, or has to be explicitly taught.
- sanswork 7mo ago
  It has to be taught. Most english native speakers will say Lie-chester by default.
wlonkly 7mo ago
Asking people how to pronounce "Strachan Street" is an old Toronto pastime. (Strawn, by the way.)

by FpUser 7mo ago

Here in Toronto area city of Vaughan pronounced as (/vɔːn/ or /vɑːn/) like in "dawn" or "gone" Imaging me fresh from USSR asking someone how do I get to ... and getting blank stare

bluepeter 7mo ago

That's great. What's also amusing is how you felt it necessary to provide the diacritical pronunciation guide for "Vaughan"... because I think to most native English speakers we can't imagine any other pronunciation!

FpUser 7mo ago
I think native English speaker who had never heard of Vaughan (sure we can find some of those) would likely to pronounce it like "Vog-un" - /ˈvɒɡən/ or "Vog-han" - /ˈvɑːɡən/
- SoftTalker 7mo ago
  No, "gh" is usually silent in English spelling.
  - jhauris 7mo ago
    Laugh, trough, tough, rough. Maybe it should be "Vawfan"
    - oblio 7mo ago
      Ghoul.
      - card_zero 7mo ago
        Hiccough. Loughborough, which has it both ways. (Apocryphally pronounced by Australians as "Loogahbaroogah".)
  - toast0 7mo ago
    augh is not as common as ough, but either one can make any sound in the whole syllabary. How about Sequim, WA. Guess how to pronounciate that.
    - philiplu 7mo ago
      Or Puyallup, WA. Those two are definite shibboleth tests in the PNW.
      - bluepeter 7mo ago
        Pend Oreille is the eastern WA test for western WA.
        canucker2016 7mo ago
        and for our eastern neighbours: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho (and Boise too) My years of french class steered me wrong there.
      - shawn_w 7mo ago
        Des Moines, WA vs Des Moines, IA.
- b40d-48b2-979e 7mo ago
  No, I don't think they would. I've never heard of Vaughan and assumed one syllable like the parent commenter.
- trollierworm 7mo ago
  This sent me down a mental rabbit hole, I think it's one of those interesting nuances that are rules that native speakers follow without being able to name it, or know it. I'm a native speaker, and also thought `vawn` was the most obvious pronounciation. I'm guessing it's because `augh` is perceived as a recognizable vowel cluster where `gh` tends to be silent (daughter, caught, naught, taught). The interesting twist for me is that `laugh` is in obvious counter example, until I realized that gh in final position (laugh, rough, enough) is almost always \f\. And further, in words like laughter, roughness, we immediately distinguish a modified root word from the lexical position. Maybe there's also an interesting thread to pull on in that the pattern may be more pronounced for names (e.g. Hughes). Just ruminating here though, I don't have a source for any of this.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

loloquwowndueo 7mo ago

Typical in Toronto - remember there’s only one T in “Toronto”

FpUser 7mo ago
ROFL. I ignore this sacred rule
canucker2016 7mo ago
...and the first o is silent, and the remaining o's are pronounced 'a'. But the TV news reporters enunciate every letter in Toronto.
madcaptenor 7mo ago
There's also only one T in "Atlanta". (For some people there are none.)
- brutal_noodle 7mo ago
  Definitely heard "Alana" in the South. On the West cost right now, got a buddy from West Virginia, and even after 20-30-some-odd-years in California, he still says it like that. Among other things he boomhauers.
  - madcaptenor 7mo ago
    I didn't realize "boomhauer" could be verbed.
brutal_noodle 7mo ago
'oronto?

nayuki 7mo ago

There are a handful of neighborhood and street names used in Toronto (not necessarily from Toronto) that have unusual pronunciations. Here I'll give some triples of (English spelling, actual pronunciation (IPA), a naive pronunciation (IPA)): (Yonge, [jʌŋ], [jɑndʒ]); (Strachan, [sdʒɹɑn], [ˈsdʒɹa.tʃæn]); (Tecumseth, [tə.ˈkʌm.zi], [ˈti.kəm.sɛθ]); (Markham, [ˈmɑr.kʌm], [ˈmɑrk.hæm]), (Etobicoke, [ɛ.ˈtoʊ.bɪ.koʊ], [ɛ.ˈtoʊ.bɪ.koʊk]). See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2cyg6bFeRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2cyg6bFeRc , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmeDWvwD8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PmeDWvwD8M

glitchc 7mo ago
That's because some are Indigenous names phoneticized for English speakers (Yonge and Markham on the other hand are entirely English names): Etobicoke. From Adobigok [1] Tecumseh (or Tecumseth). From tecumtha or takhamehse [2] Mississauga. From Misi-zaagiing [3] [1] https://www.etobicokehistorical.com/brief-history-of-etobicoke.html https://www.etobicokehistorical.com/brief-history-of-etobico... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississauga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississauga

rapnie 7mo ago

As a non-native English speaker I wonder if Leicester is naturally pronounced right for the natives, or has to be explicitly taught.

sanswork 7mo ago
It has to be taught. Most english native speakers will say Lie-chester by default.

wlonkly 7mo ago

Asking people how to pronounce "Strachan Street" is an old Toronto pastime. (Strawn, by the way.)