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Sure. Elon Musk is a heroic man. His car company is a marvel, and his space program is spectacular. His unfettered ability to speak without a mouth full of fund

by jpxxx 14y ago

Sure. Elon Musk is a heroic man. His car company is a marvel, and his space program is spectacular. His unfettered ability to speak without a mouth full of funder's cock or a PR minder sitting in the room is refreshing. His visions are grounded in technical and physical reality, his powers of observation are keen, and he has the personality and resources it takes to organize people in service of great accomplishments. Sanely priced two-way trips to Mars will change the course of humanity by enabling us to colonize the solar system and perhaps ensure a longer story for all mankind. This is the most interesting thing I've read all day, and he deserves every bit of attention. Now back to your regularly scheduled pessimism: Humanity has a long way to go, and a change of scenery isn't going to do all that much for her. The United States of America with her vast resources and impeccable pedigree in advancing Enlightenment is operating a torture camp for political prisoners in a subtropical shithole. What exactly happens when we send a thousand of our best and brightest and edgiest and most ambitious to live in what is essentially an submarine entombed underground for a decade? Do they live up to the Star Trek ideal? Or do they do what people in confined spaces tend to do? Can we provide a reasonable quality of life for colonists? Beyond maintaining air pressure and food, can we provide for them spiritually and emotionally? Can we provide a -life-? Geology only gets you so far. Even on Earth it's kind of an obscure trade, and geology is about all there is to -do- on Mars. What does a day to day life look like there? Do the children go to school? How is conflict handled? Who participates in what activities? What if there is too much to do? What if there isn't enough to do? How do you settle transplanetary custody battles when it means mommy or daddy taking the kid on a potentially lethal trip to another planet? How do you handle disease when everyone's in a thousand foot wide sphere? How do you bury people on an igneous planet? What does suicide mean for a Martian civilization? There are a billion things to consider, and Elon has the first five thousand handled. I am delighted that we get to think about the rest now.

indiecore 14y ago
>What exactly happens when we send a thousand of our best and brightest and edgiest and most ambitious to live in what is essentially an submarine entombed underground for a decade? That's what we're trying to find out.
nickzarzycki 14y ago
>I am delighted You certainly don't sound like it.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  I would sprint through a minefield to be on that first boat out. My wallpaper at one point in life was panoramic prints from the Opportunity rover. I wrote Kim Stanley Robinson a fan letter, signed with a chewed up gelly pen. I am utterly delighted. But the hard part is extremely, extremely, extremely hard. It's not getting there, it's staying there. And scant few people are focusing on what it would actually look like and how it would actually work if we actually sent people offworld, which I very much want to happen. Mars500 needs to be Mars5000000 before this dream is real. Honestly, if we could airlift people into the Sahel with a real-world replica of what would be going to Mars and they could make it a few years, I could die happy. Elon Musk has the easy job in all this.
  - InternetUser 14y ago
    I have to say that I definitely agree with your point--and your writing style is great. Do you happen to have a blog or contribute material to any other website (aside from this one, of course)?
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      Soon, thank you. But I doubt I'll connect it to this or any of my other sour and shitty identities. Time for a fresh start.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    I can answer all your questions: Some people will be happy with the life. Some people will be unhappy with the life. Same as it is in every single other living situation.
  - koide 14y ago
    I'm not convinced. After all, colonization of far away lands has been done throughout history and in many cases the return trip was as hard as it would be on Mars. I picture the confinement problem as the most troublesome, but astronauts spend months in orders of magnitude tighter spaces and surviving in relatively good condition. There's no reason at all you should send untrained people on those first missions and there's also no reason at all not to schedule yearly trips to bring back the people who couldn't stand the pressure. Now, of course it will be insanely hard, there will be highly complex issues with no apparent solution that will have to be solved via improvisation without the proper means. But humans seem to have done it again and again.
guylhem 14y ago
First, a reply to your original post : > In a box, on a dead planet, for life. Sign me up, right now!!! > Can we provide a reasonable quality of life for colonists? I don't care. I would need a) air+water b) food c) a place to sleep d) tools to colonize the planet - like create more living space. For quality of life, if I can get e) book or movies or even f) internet access, great! If I can't that's not a dealbreaker. So, sign me up!!
- aardvark179 14y ago
  I do admire this sort of enthusiasm, but I also wonder if it can survive such a mission. However we don't need to send a mission to Mars to find out, and if anybody truly wants to send people to Mars on anything other than short term suicide mission then we really need to do a lot more research in this area. Build enclosed isolated environments with limited space, resources and comms, and see how teams get on over long time periods if they believe there is no way out. I'm not convinced that our future as flesh and blood humans is in space, or even on any of the other planets in our solar system, but if we're going to try then we cannot focus solely on the hard technical challenges.
  - guylhem 14y ago
    I'm totally motivated and committed to Mars. Would that commitment survive in a mission? IMHO, totally because I'd even say yes to a one-way trip with a time limit (ie your "life support system will stop working in 3 years") But the idea of an enclosed isolated test environment just doesn't raise the same kind of enthusiasm in me. Unless there are side benefits (like freedom - ie build a new country from scratch in the middle of say Antarctica!!) I don't know why, but I really don't feel like taking part in the experience. I guess it's all about selfishness - being on Mars matches my selfish motives. Doing a 10 years test somewhere in a controlled bunker on earth, a sacrifice for the next team who might do the same on real Mars??? I'll pass the opportunity. That makes me wonder if it would be a good thing to run such an experiment, considering the volunteers would certainly be different (in their reason and personalities) from the ones who would volunteer for a real Mars mission.

by jpxxx 14y ago

indiecore 14y ago

>What exactly happens when we send a thousand of our best and brightest and edgiest and most ambitious to live in what is essentially an submarine entombed underground for a decade? That's what we're trying to find out.

nickzarzycki 14y ago

>I am delighted You certainly don't sound like it.

jpxxx 14y ago
I would sprint through a minefield to be on that first boat out. My wallpaper at one point in life was panoramic prints from the Opportunity rover. I wrote Kim Stanley Robinson a fan letter, signed with a chewed up gelly pen. I am utterly delighted. But the hard part is extremely, extremely, extremely hard. It's not getting there, it's staying there. And scant few people are focusing on what it would actually look like and how it would actually work if we actually sent people offworld, which I very much want to happen. Mars500 needs to be Mars5000000 before this dream is real. Honestly, if we could airlift people into the Sahel with a real-world replica of what would be going to Mars and they could make it a few years, I could die happy. Elon Musk has the easy job in all this.
- InternetUser 14y ago
  I have to say that I definitely agree with your point--and your writing style is great. Do you happen to have a blog or contribute material to any other website (aside from this one, of course)?
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    Soon, thank you. But I doubt I'll connect it to this or any of my other sour and shitty identities. Time for a fresh start.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  I can answer all your questions: Some people will be happy with the life. Some people will be unhappy with the life. Same as it is in every single other living situation.
- koide 14y ago
  I'm not convinced. After all, colonization of far away lands has been done throughout history and in many cases the return trip was as hard as it would be on Mars. I picture the confinement problem as the most troublesome, but astronauts spend months in orders of magnitude tighter spaces and surviving in relatively good condition. There's no reason at all you should send untrained people on those first missions and there's also no reason at all not to schedule yearly trips to bring back the people who couldn't stand the pressure. Now, of course it will be insanely hard, there will be highly complex issues with no apparent solution that will have to be solved via improvisation without the proper means. But humans seem to have done it again and again.

guylhem 14y ago

First, a reply to your original post : > In a box, on a dead planet, for life. Sign me up, right now!!! > Can we provide a reasonable quality of life for colonists? I don't care. I would need a) air+water b) food c) a place to sleep d) tools to colonize the planet - like create more living space. For quality of life, if I can get e) book or movies or even f) internet access, great! If I can't that's not a dealbreaker. So, sign me up!!

aardvark179 14y ago
I do admire this sort of enthusiasm, but I also wonder if it can survive such a mission. However we don't need to send a mission to Mars to find out, and if anybody truly wants to send people to Mars on anything other than short term suicide mission then we really need to do a lot more research in this area. Build enclosed isolated environments with limited space, resources and comms, and see how teams get on over long time periods if they believe there is no way out. I'm not convinced that our future as flesh and blood humans is in space, or even on any of the other planets in our solar system, but if we're going to try then we cannot focus solely on the hard technical challenges.
- guylhem 14y ago
  I'm totally motivated and committed to Mars. Would that commitment survive in a mission? IMHO, totally because I'd even say yes to a one-way trip with a time limit (ie your "life support system will stop working in 3 years") But the idea of an enclosed isolated test environment just doesn't raise the same kind of enthusiasm in me. Unless there are side benefits (like freedom - ie build a new country from scratch in the middle of say Antarctica!!) I don't know why, but I really don't feel like taking part in the experience. I guess it's all about selfishness - being on Mars matches my selfish motives. Doing a 10 years test somewhere in a controlled bunker on earth, a sacrifice for the next team who might do the same on real Mars??? I'll pass the opportunity. That makes me wonder if it would be a good thing to run such an experiment, considering the volunteers would certainly be different (in their reason and personalities) from the ones who would volunteer for a real Mars mission.