4 ms·

That's just how busy people type. You see it a lot if you communicate with upper managers/Csuite regularly. They don't have anyone to impress in private emails,

That's just how busy people type. You see it a lot if you communicate with upper managers/Csuite regularly. They don't have anyone to impress in private emails, as long as the message is communicated well enough. Before smartphones/autocorrect/dictation it was worse.

moralestapia 8mo ago
>That's just how busy people type. Lmao. If you think these people are busy, I have news for you.
- k33n 8mo ago
  Their schedules are usually quite full, but their work doesn't really resemble an average person's.
  - rexpop 8mo ago
    Their schedules are full of leisure, and they can't be arsed to extend even the oz of courteous effort that proper punctuation and grammar require. And their class all recognize it. Possibly it's a class marker. Here, I have to carefully articulate my point because I am desperately trying to convince you not to carry water for the Epstein a class.
    - k33n 8mo ago
      What's your point? That everyone with a lot of wealth lives exactly the same, and is comparable to Epstein? I'm not sure I understand.
      - rexpop 8mo ago
        I mean, yeah. Epstein isn't an abberation, he's typical C-level management. They say "power corrupts", but I think it warps social reality. They're all complicit in the maintainance of a political economy that facilitates the concentration of power in a way that obviates consent.
        k33n 8mo ago
        That's not an accurate interpretation of reality.
triceratops 8mo ago
> Before smartphones/autocorrect/dictation it was worse. Ima call bullshit on this. Read the published letters of some historical figures.
- YinglingHeavy 8mo ago
  I call bullshit on you comparing what was obviously a 2000s+ phenomenon with that of closer to the 1800s.
  - triceratops 8mo ago
    I didn't say 1800s. But also I thought "dictation" meant via a secretary. I guess they meant by voice recognition.
    - overtone1000 8mo ago
      I thought the same. "Dictated but not read."
- kstrauser 8mo ago
  Survivorship bias. You don't often read the notes where Thomas Jefferson jotted "hey martha riding to ftore be back later love you - Tommy".
  - SoftTalker 8mo ago
    Not so sure. After my father died I came across a box of old letters that were sent between he and his friends, from their early college years. Just personal, casual correspondence, which today would be done with a messaging app or email. Even on the short notes, the structure, spelling, grammar, and even the penmanship is excellent compared to what I see people of the same age doing today.
    - kstrauser 8mo ago
      You had to dedicate so many more resources to that, though. Mailing a letter requires gathering up paper, a pen, an envelope, a stamp, and the person's address, then physically transporting it to a mailbox. It also has a lot of inherent latency, so you have to pack a lot of content into the message because it'll take as much effort into clarifying something you left out on the first message. It's natural to put more care into something you've invested that much baseline effort into. I wouldn't spend nearly as much effort on something ephemeral and instant. For instance, I'm not going to mail my sister in another state a letter saying "ok thanks". I very while might text her that, because 1) she knows exactly what I'm referring to — the thing we were talking about 11 seconds earlier; 2) the customs of messaging mean she doesn't expect or want a wall of text; and 3) if she has any more questions, she can ask them and I'll reply within a minute or two.
kstrauser 8mo ago
I think you're right. I've gone back and read some of my own posts here and winced at what the combination of one-handed typing as I hold onto a handrail on a packed subway plus autocorrect did to what I thought I was saying. I make an effort to use correct spelling and grammar in everything I write that's longer than "ok i'll check when at office", but sometimes it slips past. People still seem to understand what I'm telling them, though, and that's the ultimate goal.
TYPE_FASTER 8mo ago
> Before smartphones/autocorrect/dictation it was worse. Not sure I agree. I remember e-mails being capitalized and punctuated. It's not so much typos and laziness as much as incomplete thoughts and distraction. Communication as a whole has devolved from an e-mail with a complete thought and some details to a text or chat message without capitalization, punctuation or context. The lack of capitalization and punctuation are just a tell to me that the sender didn't put thought into it. I can't tell you how many times I get a chat message asking a question. I in return ask questions about context, and explain why I'm asking. Then the original sender gets annoyed and provides context. Then I ask more questions. Then the original sender gets quiet. Then I get an invite to a meeting to discuss with a wider audience.
- b40d-48b2-979e 8mo ago
  Then the original sender gets quiet. Then I get an invite to a meeting to discuss with a wider audience. One of the most infuriating aspects of working in corporate with people where English is not the primary language.
mmooss 8mo ago
> That's just how busy people type. You see it a lot if you communicate with upper managers/Csuite regularly. They don't have anyone to impress in private emails, as long as the message is communicated well enough. There is a time pressure to communicate this way, but I think it's generally a management mistake: Managment includes leadership (usually). Your messages are most of what most people in the organization see of you. You set the high bar; nobody will prioritize quality and attention to detail more than you. And that standard is global IME - you can't very effectively set the example that messages can be sloppy but nothing else. For messages to my social inner circle, for example, I am much less careful - misspellings, abbreviations, etc. For messages to people I manage or lead, I make sure it's perfect every time.
- bluGill 8mo ago
  Messages from the CEO to the whole company should be carefully checked, and in my experience they seem to be. Spelling/grammar is just a tiny part of check, there is also the whole inclusive language/not offensive to anyone set of checks, and the is this even legal check (perhaps more, that is what I can think of offhand). Messages to a single vice president get much less care.
  - mmooss 8mo ago
    I agree that's the reality, but that VP will follow your example - as a leader, excellence is a performance, a superficial presentation for others, not something to do in private. Also, it's normal to not take your reportees seriously (to some degree).

moralestapia 8mo ago

>That's just how busy people type. Lmao. If you think these people are busy, I have news for you.

k33n 8mo ago
Their schedules are usually quite full, but their work doesn't really resemble an average person's.
- rexpop 8mo ago
  Their schedules are full of leisure, and they can't be arsed to extend even the oz of courteous effort that proper punctuation and grammar require. And their class all recognize it. Possibly it's a class marker. Here, I have to carefully articulate my point because I am desperately trying to convince you not to carry water for the Epstein a class.
  - k33n 8mo ago
    What's your point? That everyone with a lot of wealth lives exactly the same, and is comparable to Epstein? I'm not sure I understand.
    - rexpop 8mo ago
      I mean, yeah. Epstein isn't an abberation, he's typical C-level management. They say "power corrupts", but I think it warps social reality. They're all complicit in the maintainance of a political economy that facilitates the concentration of power in a way that obviates consent.
      - k33n 8mo ago
        That's not an accurate interpretation of reality.

triceratops 8mo ago

> Before smartphones/autocorrect/dictation it was worse. Ima call bullshit on this. Read the published letters of some historical figures.

YinglingHeavy 8mo ago
I call bullshit on you comparing what was obviously a 2000s+ phenomenon with that of closer to the 1800s.
- triceratops 8mo ago
  I didn't say 1800s. But also I thought "dictation" meant via a secretary. I guess they meant by voice recognition.
  - overtone1000 8mo ago
    I thought the same. "Dictated but not read."
kstrauser 8mo ago
Survivorship bias. You don't often read the notes where Thomas Jefferson jotted "hey martha riding to ftore be back later love you - Tommy".
- SoftTalker 8mo ago
  Not so sure. After my father died I came across a box of old letters that were sent between he and his friends, from their early college years. Just personal, casual correspondence, which today would be done with a messaging app or email. Even on the short notes, the structure, spelling, grammar, and even the penmanship is excellent compared to what I see people of the same age doing today.
  - kstrauser 8mo ago
    You had to dedicate so many more resources to that, though. Mailing a letter requires gathering up paper, a pen, an envelope, a stamp, and the person's address, then physically transporting it to a mailbox. It also has a lot of inherent latency, so you have to pack a lot of content into the message because it'll take as much effort into clarifying something you left out on the first message. It's natural to put more care into something you've invested that much baseline effort into. I wouldn't spend nearly as much effort on something ephemeral and instant. For instance, I'm not going to mail my sister in another state a letter saying "ok thanks". I very while might text her that, because 1) she knows exactly what I'm referring to — the thing we were talking about 11 seconds earlier; 2) the customs of messaging mean she doesn't expect or want a wall of text; and 3) if she has any more questions, she can ask them and I'll reply within a minute or two.

kstrauser 8mo ago

I think you're right. I've gone back and read some of my own posts here and winced at what the combination of one-handed typing as I hold onto a handrail on a packed subway plus autocorrect did to what I thought I was saying. I make an effort to use correct spelling and grammar in everything I write that's longer than "ok i'll check when at office", but sometimes it slips past. People still seem to understand what I'm telling them, though, and that's the ultimate goal.

TYPE_FASTER 8mo ago

> Before smartphones/autocorrect/dictation it was worse. Not sure I agree. I remember e-mails being capitalized and punctuated. It's not so much typos and laziness as much as incomplete thoughts and distraction. Communication as a whole has devolved from an e-mail with a complete thought and some details to a text or chat message without capitalization, punctuation or context. The lack of capitalization and punctuation are just a tell to me that the sender didn't put thought into it. I can't tell you how many times I get a chat message asking a question. I in return ask questions about context, and explain why I'm asking. Then the original sender gets annoyed and provides context. Then I ask more questions. Then the original sender gets quiet. Then I get an invite to a meeting to discuss with a wider audience.

b40d-48b2-979e 8mo ago
Then the original sender gets quiet. Then I get an invite to a meeting to discuss with a wider audience. One of the most infuriating aspects of working in corporate with people where English is not the primary language.

mmooss 8mo ago

> That's just how busy people type. You see it a lot if you communicate with upper managers/Csuite regularly. They don't have anyone to impress in private emails, as long as the message is communicated well enough. There is a time pressure to communicate this way, but I think it's generally a management mistake: Managment includes leadership (usually). Your messages are most of what most people in the organization see of you. You set the high bar; nobody will prioritize quality and attention to detail more than you. And that standard is global IME - you can't very effectively set the example that messages can be sloppy but nothing else. For messages to my social inner circle, for example, I am much less careful - misspellings, abbreviations, etc. For messages to people I manage or lead, I make sure it's perfect every time.

bluGill 8mo ago
Messages from the CEO to the whole company should be carefully checked, and in my experience they seem to be. Spelling/grammar is just a tiny part of check, there is also the whole inclusive language/not offensive to anyone set of checks, and the is this even legal check (perhaps more, that is what I can think of offhand). Messages to a single vice president get much less care.
- mmooss 8mo ago
  I agree that's the reality, but that VP will follow your example - as a leader, excellence is a performance, a superficial presentation for others, not something to do in private. Also, it's normal to not take your reportees seriously (to some degree).