6 ms·

I grew up in WA and as much as I enjoyed the lack of income tax, it's factual that until recently they held the title of #1 most regressive state tax system nat

I grew up in WA and as much as I enjoyed the lack of income tax, it's factual that until recently they held the title of #1 most regressive state tax system nationwide (recently bumped to #2 by FL). Income taxes are much better distributed among income brackets than consumption taxes are. I grew up just over the river from Portland, where there is no state sales tax; we got to enjoy the best of both worlds by crossing the state line to OR for large purchases and living in WA. Ironically, my home for the last decade (MO) has recently moved forward with a bill eliminating the statewide income tax in favor of a higher sales tax. This is in a state where the two largest cities are situated on the borders of other states, so it's essentially a guarantee that this will backfire.

calvinmorrison 7mo ago
the great thing about sales tax is rich people spend a lot of money on dumb shit
- mtoner23 7mo ago
  Not relative to their income tho. Sales taxes are regressive and get more money from the poor
  - pc86 7mo ago
    They get less money from the poor but it's a higher percentage of that person's income. There is a difference.
- kimbernator 7mo ago
  Not enough to make it preferable to income taxes.
- gwbas1c 7mo ago
  The great thing about sales tax is that everyone can bypass it. You don't need to be the kind of person who can hire a tax expert to coach you; all you need to do is drive over the state line!
TheJoeMan 7mo ago
The "free" federal tax filing service I use in Florida, makes their money by charging for state filings. It will add an additional hour or two of effort to every resident of the state, even if they are below the state income threshold which is quite an externality. Also, I would be wary bragging about buying your goods in Oregon, you technically may owe WA use tax https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax.
- kimbernator 7mo ago
  > Also, I would be wary bragging about buying your goods in Oregon, you technically may owe WA use tax In my experience, this is well-known around Vancouver and elicits nothing but eye rolls when mentioned. If there is any enforcement whatsoever for that rule (a big if), it's clearly toothless and people don't worry much about it. A Best Buy opened a couple miles north of the river in the late 2000s and didn't make it much more than a year because another one existed in Jantzen Beach, immediately across the state line. The Vancouver location amounted to a showroom before people decided if they wanted to drive the extra 15 minutes.
- pc86 7mo ago
  This is one of those things that I question the legality of, but it will never get answered because nobody is going to the Supreme Court over sales tax. I can understand the argument of me sitting at home in State 1, buying something online, and having it delivered to me in State 1, and owing State 1 some sales tax on that. It is absolutely no business of State 1's what I do when I travel into State 2. Whether or not I buy something and/or the value of that purchase should not enrich State 1 in any way. The only reasonable exception I can think of is if I'm buying things to bring back and resell.
  - tzs 7mo ago
    > This is one of those things that I question the legality of, but it will never get answered because nobody is going to the Supreme Court over sales tax Someone did go the Supreme Court over sales tax on property bought out of state. Henneford v. Silas Mason Co., Inc., 300 US 577 (1937). Text here [1]. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/300/577 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/300/577
limagnolia 7mo ago
In Missouri, the current proposal is to put it up to a vote, so Missourians will decide what they want. There are safguards builtin where the income tax is only phased out if there is revenue to replace it. Its an interesting experiment setup. ** The way to make a consumption tax progresive is with a prebate, or if you want to be more complicated, a rebate. With a prebate, every citizen or resident would recieve a check each period for the amount of the consumption tax up to the spending level you set as the curve for regresiveess, such as the federal poverty line. It would be difficult for Missouri to implement a prebate on its own due to the proximity of the population to other states! (Residents could take the prebate, then travel across state lines to spend it, resulting in a huge loss to the state). Income taxes are complicated to collect, subject to massive violations of privacy, and generally provide more perverse incentives than consumption taxes.
- kimbernator 7mo ago
  Given the experience I've had with MO's legislature, I don't have a lot of trust in them to do anything that directly reflects the majority desire. Ultimately they have clearly shown a preference towards Republican dogma than democratic norms, so I fully expect the income tax removal to go through regardless of the balance sheet.
ihsw 7mo ago
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deleted 7mo ago
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calvinmorrison 7mo ago

the great thing about sales tax is rich people spend a lot of money on dumb shit

mtoner23 7mo ago
Not relative to their income tho. Sales taxes are regressive and get more money from the poor
- pc86 7mo ago
  They get less money from the poor but it's a higher percentage of that person's income. There is a difference.
kimbernator 7mo ago
Not enough to make it preferable to income taxes.
gwbas1c 7mo ago
The great thing about sales tax is that everyone can bypass it. You don't need to be the kind of person who can hire a tax expert to coach you; all you need to do is drive over the state line!

TheJoeMan 7mo ago

The "free" federal tax filing service I use in Florida, makes their money by charging for state filings. It will add an additional hour or two of effort to every resident of the state, even if they are below the state income threshold which is quite an externality. Also, I would be wary bragging about buying your goods in Oregon, you technically may owe WA use tax https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax.

kimbernator 7mo ago
> Also, I would be wary bragging about buying your goods in Oregon, you technically may owe WA use tax In my experience, this is well-known around Vancouver and elicits nothing but eye rolls when mentioned. If there is any enforcement whatsoever for that rule (a big if), it's clearly toothless and people don't worry much about it. A Best Buy opened a couple miles north of the river in the late 2000s and didn't make it much more than a year because another one existed in Jantzen Beach, immediately across the state line. The Vancouver location amounted to a showroom before people decided if they wanted to drive the extra 15 minutes.
pc86 7mo ago
This is one of those things that I question the legality of, but it will never get answered because nobody is going to the Supreme Court over sales tax. I can understand the argument of me sitting at home in State 1, buying something online, and having it delivered to me in State 1, and owing State 1 some sales tax on that. It is absolutely no business of State 1's what I do when I travel into State 2. Whether or not I buy something and/or the value of that purchase should not enrich State 1 in any way. The only reasonable exception I can think of is if I'm buying things to bring back and resell.
- tzs 7mo ago
  > This is one of those things that I question the legality of, but it will never get answered because nobody is going to the Supreme Court over sales tax Someone did go the Supreme Court over sales tax on property bought out of state. Henneford v. Silas Mason Co., Inc., 300 US 577 (1937). Text here [1]. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/300/577 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/300/577

limagnolia 7mo ago

In Missouri, the current proposal is to put it up to a vote, so Missourians will decide what they want. There are safguards builtin where the income tax is only phased out if there is revenue to replace it. Its an interesting experiment setup. ** The way to make a consumption tax progresive is with a prebate, or if you want to be more complicated, a rebate. With a prebate, every citizen or resident would recieve a check each period for the amount of the consumption tax up to the spending level you set as the curve for regresiveess, such as the federal poverty line. It would be difficult for Missouri to implement a prebate on its own due to the proximity of the population to other states! (Residents could take the prebate, then travel across state lines to spend it, resulting in a huge loss to the state). Income taxes are complicated to collect, subject to massive violations of privacy, and generally provide more perverse incentives than consumption taxes.

kimbernator 7mo ago
Given the experience I've had with MO's legislature, I don't have a lot of trust in them to do anything that directly reflects the majority desire. Ultimately they have clearly shown a preference towards Republican dogma than democratic norms, so I fully expect the income tax removal to go through regardless of the balance sheet.

ihsw 7mo ago

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deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]