6 ms·

Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. That’s not where things get caught up. Also,

by Auracle 7mo ago

Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. That’s not where things get caught up. Also, it’s a pretty silly thing anyways. I don’t even drink and I still need my driver’s license quite a few times every year.

stetrain 7mo ago
Free and accessible are not the same thing. And a driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.
- delecti 7mo ago
  Yep. And in fact there's been a ton of resistance for 20 years to rolling out an alternate form of driver's license which does act as proof of citizenship. See the REAL ID, which even now is only kinda a requirement to fly domestically.
  - mothballed 7mo ago
    .gov own court filings have argued Real ID isn't a reliable proof of citizenship and have refused to accept it as such. "...based on HSI Special Agent training and experience, REAL ID can be unreliable to confirm U.S. citizenship." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.alsd.76579/gov.uscourts.alsd.76579.44.1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.alsd.76...
  - jagenabler2 7mo ago
    I'm not sure where this idea that REAL ID is a form of citizenship came from. I am not a citizen and i was given a REAL ID just by proving my legal (non-immigrant) status.
    - wat10000 7mo ago
      I think a lot of people just forget that non-citizen legal residents exist.
  - DangitBobby 7mo ago
    I have a Real ID, and I supplied a proof of citizenship to get it. However, in my state, it's possible to obtain a Real ID without providing proof of citizenship, so my Real ID does not qualify as proof of citizenship. My passport is the only document I have that could function as both photo ID and proof of citizenship. Passports are not the easiest things to obtain and they are not free.
  - jjmarr 7mo ago
    Real ID only confirms one was lawfully present in the United States when the ID was issued, it is not intended to prove citizenship. https://www.dhs.gov/archive/real-id-public-faqs https://www.dhs.gov/archive/real-id-public-faqs For example, DACA recipients, temporary protected status refugees, and citizens of states in free association with the USA (Micronesia/Marshall Islands/Palau) that are in the USA are all eligible for Real ID.
    - brendoelfrendo 7mo ago
      Correct. My understanding of the SAVE act is that it would require an enhanced RealID drivers license to act as sole proof of citizenship, which is a type of license only issued in 5 states (all bordering Canada) that can act as proof of citizenship when driving across the US-Canada border. Even people with a valid RealID would be required to bring an additional form of ID to prove citizenship, such as a birth certificate. The fact that this is confusing to people is, in and of itself, a huge red flag for the impact this will have on voter participation.
lokar 7mo ago
The current bill Trump is pushing for requires "documentary proof of citizenship ", this can actually be very hard. It means an original/certified birth certificate, as well as any subsequent name changes (mostly married women). This is completely unnecessary. We establish citizenship, very reliably, at time of registration. This is on of the main jobs of the registrar of voters. They have plenty of time to look up the details of the person and establish citizenship (and intentionally lying in this process is a serious crime). We then establish identity at the time of voting, again, very reliably. Intentional voter impersonation or voting when not eligible is vanishingly rare in the US.
- tastyfreeze 7mo ago
  Some states only require a piece of mail and checking a box saying you are legally allowed to vote to register. Then when you checkin to vote the workers are not permitted to ask for ID to prove you are the person you claim to be. At no point during that process is there presentation of proof of citizenship.
  - giancarlostoro 7mo ago
    I have cousins from Cuba and Venezuela, hearing this sort of information is rather alarming to them to say the least.
  - selectodude 7mo ago
    Any ballots that are cast under same-day registration are cast as provisional and will go through the full verification process if the election is close enough where those ballots are necessary. Source: actually ran a fucking election precinct. Non-citizens aren’t casting ballots illegally.
    - tastyfreeze 7mo ago
      I'm not talking about same day registration. If you are on the rolls and proof of citizenship is not required to register, then how do you as a poll worker know the person on the rolls is a citizen?
d1sxeyes 7mo ago
Even if the ID is nominally free, if I have to take a day off and pay for bus/train tickets to wait in line at some office, it’s not really free.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 7mo ago
  Some districts have limited DMV hours in advance of voting days. Coincidental how these might be Democratic leaning areas in Republican states.
  - jeffbee 7mo ago
    I don't even know why this is downvoted. Standard technique in Texas. Harris County does not have 40 DPS offices for its 5 million people. The current backlog to get a DPS drivers license appointment in Harris County is 45 days. The next available appointment in Kerrville is tomorrow. That is inequitable. But anyway, none of that is the real core issue with the idea of voter ID. The real issue is that there are many living Americans who were born in jurisdictions that steadfastly refused to issue birth certificates to Black people.
    - superxpro12 7mo ago
      This doesn't have to be binary... there can be multiple sources of disenfranchisement. They all add up.
- SoftTalker 7mo ago
  That's life. Figure it out. It's really an insult to a group of people to imply that they aren't capable of being a functioning adult in society.
  - superxpro12 7mo ago
    "Voting is only from 9-4" and you have a real job. Let's not pretend this wouldn't immediately be taken advantage of in certain places where disenfranchisement is real.
TSiege 7mo ago
> Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. Do you have a source for this because I have seen very few laws like this and runs counter to the overt intention of these laws
- sejje 7mo ago
  Look up the 25 states that already have voter ID laws, and corresponding free-id programs to avoid being considered a poll tax.
- mulmen 7mo ago
  You can make it free but still require a person to travel to the county seat or some other distant location to get the ID. That requirement disproportionately hinders minority and poor voters. It’s also easy to “forget” their registrations.
joshgachnang 7mo ago
While Wisconsin was debating this, they also closed a bunch of DMVs and limited hours for other ones. The WI constitution enshrines the ability to vote. So you may think it's silly and for 99% of people it may be silly, but if anyone is prevented from voting because there's not a reasonable way for them to get a license, their rights are being infringed.

by Auracle 7mo ago

stetrain 7mo ago

Free and accessible are not the same thing. And a driver's license is not necessarily proof of citizenship.

delecti 7mo ago
Yep. And in fact there's been a ton of resistance for 20 years to rolling out an alternate form of driver's license which does act as proof of citizenship. See the REAL ID, which even now is only kinda a requirement to fly domestically.
- mothballed 7mo ago
  .gov own court filings have argued Real ID isn't a reliable proof of citizenship and have refused to accept it as such. "...based on HSI Special Agent training and experience, REAL ID can be unreliable to confirm U.S. citizenship." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.alsd.76579/gov.uscourts.alsd.76579.44.1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.alsd.76...
- jagenabler2 7mo ago
  I'm not sure where this idea that REAL ID is a form of citizenship came from. I am not a citizen and i was given a REAL ID just by proving my legal (non-immigrant) status.
  - wat10000 7mo ago
    I think a lot of people just forget that non-citizen legal residents exist.
- DangitBobby 7mo ago
  I have a Real ID, and I supplied a proof of citizenship to get it. However, in my state, it's possible to obtain a Real ID without providing proof of citizenship, so my Real ID does not qualify as proof of citizenship. My passport is the only document I have that could function as both photo ID and proof of citizenship. Passports are not the easiest things to obtain and they are not free.
- jjmarr 7mo ago
  Real ID only confirms one was lawfully present in the United States when the ID was issued, it is not intended to prove citizenship. https://www.dhs.gov/archive/real-id-public-faqs https://www.dhs.gov/archive/real-id-public-faqs For example, DACA recipients, temporary protected status refugees, and citizens of states in free association with the USA (Micronesia/Marshall Islands/Palau) that are in the USA are all eligible for Real ID.
  - brendoelfrendo 7mo ago
    Correct. My understanding of the SAVE act is that it would require an enhanced RealID drivers license to act as sole proof of citizenship, which is a type of license only issued in 5 states (all bordering Canada) that can act as proof of citizenship when driving across the US-Canada border. Even people with a valid RealID would be required to bring an additional form of ID to prove citizenship, such as a birth certificate. The fact that this is confusing to people is, in and of itself, a huge red flag for the impact this will have on voter participation.

lokar 7mo ago

The current bill Trump is pushing for requires "documentary proof of citizenship ", this can actually be very hard. It means an original/certified birth certificate, as well as any subsequent name changes (mostly married women). This is completely unnecessary. We establish citizenship, very reliably, at time of registration. This is on of the main jobs of the registrar of voters. They have plenty of time to look up the details of the person and establish citizenship (and intentionally lying in this process is a serious crime). We then establish identity at the time of voting, again, very reliably. Intentional voter impersonation or voting when not eligible is vanishingly rare in the US.

tastyfreeze 7mo ago
Some states only require a piece of mail and checking a box saying you are legally allowed to vote to register. Then when you checkin to vote the workers are not permitted to ask for ID to prove you are the person you claim to be. At no point during that process is there presentation of proof of citizenship.
- giancarlostoro 7mo ago
  I have cousins from Cuba and Venezuela, hearing this sort of information is rather alarming to them to say the least.
- selectodude 7mo ago
  Any ballots that are cast under same-day registration are cast as provisional and will go through the full verification process if the election is close enough where those ballots are necessary. Source: actually ran a fucking election precinct. Non-citizens aren’t casting ballots illegally.
  - tastyfreeze 7mo ago
    I'm not talking about same day registration. If you are on the rolls and proof of citizenship is not required to register, then how do you as a poll worker know the person on the rolls is a citizen?

d1sxeyes 7mo ago

Even if the ID is nominally free, if I have to take a day off and pay for bus/train tickets to wait in line at some office, it’s not really free.

0cf8612b2e1e 7mo ago
Some districts have limited DMV hours in advance of voting days. Coincidental how these might be Democratic leaning areas in Republican states.
- jeffbee 7mo ago
  I don't even know why this is downvoted. Standard technique in Texas. Harris County does not have 40 DPS offices for its 5 million people. The current backlog to get a DPS drivers license appointment in Harris County is 45 days. The next available appointment in Kerrville is tomorrow. That is inequitable. But anyway, none of that is the real core issue with the idea of voter ID. The real issue is that there are many living Americans who were born in jurisdictions that steadfastly refused to issue birth certificates to Black people.
  - superxpro12 7mo ago
    This doesn't have to be binary... there can be multiple sources of disenfranchisement. They all add up.
SoftTalker 7mo ago
That's life. Figure it out. It's really an insult to a group of people to imply that they aren't capable of being a functioning adult in society.
- superxpro12 7mo ago
  "Voting is only from 9-4" and you have a real job. Let's not pretend this wouldn't immediately be taken advantage of in certain places where disenfranchisement is real.

TSiege 7mo ago

> Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. Do you have a source for this because I have seen very few laws like this and runs counter to the overt intention of these laws

sejje 7mo ago
Look up the 25 states that already have voter ID laws, and corresponding free-id programs to avoid being considered a poll tax.
mulmen 7mo ago
You can make it free but still require a person to travel to the county seat or some other distant location to get the ID. That requirement disproportionately hinders minority and poor voters. It’s also easy to “forget” their registrations.

joshgachnang 7mo ago

While Wisconsin was debating this, they also closed a bunch of DMVs and limited hours for other ones. The WI constitution enshrines the ability to vote. So you may think it's silly and for 99% of people it may be silly, but if anyone is prevented from voting because there's not a reasonable way for them to get a license, their rights are being infringed.