4 ms·

> If you don't worry about the returns, you won't get any. He was focusing on value, not returns. That being said, his take is still a dumb take - if you focu

> If you don't worry about the returns, you won't get any. He was focusing on value, not returns. That being said, his take is still a dumb take - if you focus on creating value you may not capture any of that value for yourself. If you don't capture that value, someone else certainly will. The age of creating value for the public good is well and truly over - any value you create for the public good in the form of intellectual output is immediately captured by profit-maximising companies for training your replacement. It's not just a case of having your value captured by someone else, the AI corps are actually taking your captured value and then using it against you.

Retr0id 8mo ago
> The age of creating value for the public good is well and truly over It's not a zero sum game. Someone putting my open-source contributions (for example) in their dataset isn't subtracting value from me, or the rest of society.
gitgud 8mo ago
Well yeah, business has literally always extracted value from open source software, that’s one of the main benefits of it… (although license violations have been unprecedented with AI) “Creating value” in open source has never been about capturing value at all, it’s always been about volunteering and giving back, and recognising the unfathomable amount of open-source software that runs the modern world we live in “Capturing value” is the opposite of this, wall-gardens, proprietary API’s, vendor lock-in, closed-source code… it’s almost antithetical to the idea of open source
- lelanthran 8mo ago
  > “Creating value” in open source has never been about capturing value at all, it’s always been about volunteering and giving back I disagree; the GPL has always been transactional. You capture the value in your product by ensuring improvements come back to you. The user "pays" by not being able to close the product off.
  - zozbot234 8mo ago
    > You capture the value in your product by ensuring improvements come back to you. The user "pays" by not being able to close the product off. If clean-room re-engineering a MIT code base starting from a GPL one is legit, then AI has just made that the status quo for everything.
    - lelanthran 8mo ago
      > If clean-room re-engineering a MIT code base starting from a GPL one is legit, then AI has just made that the status quo for everything. I agree; this is what I meant by "the value is being captured by someone else". GPL provides the author with a specific value - you get back improvements. Using AI to launder that IP so that improvements don't have to be upstreamed is effectively capturing the value.

Retr0id 8mo ago

> The age of creating value for the public good is well and truly over It's not a zero sum game. Someone putting my open-source contributions (for example) in their dataset isn't subtracting value from me, or the rest of society.

gitgud 8mo ago

Well yeah, business has literally always extracted value from open source software, that’s one of the main benefits of it… (although license violations have been unprecedented with AI) “Creating value” in open source has never been about capturing value at all, it’s always been about volunteering and giving back, and recognising the unfathomable amount of open-source software that runs the modern world we live in “Capturing value” is the opposite of this, wall-gardens, proprietary API’s, vendor lock-in, closed-source code… it’s almost antithetical to the idea of open source

lelanthran 8mo ago
> “Creating value” in open source has never been about capturing value at all, it’s always been about volunteering and giving back I disagree; the GPL has always been transactional. You capture the value in your product by ensuring improvements come back to you. The user "pays" by not being able to close the product off.
- zozbot234 8mo ago
  > You capture the value in your product by ensuring improvements come back to you. The user "pays" by not being able to close the product off. If clean-room re-engineering a MIT code base starting from a GPL one is legit, then AI has just made that the status quo for everything.
  - lelanthran 8mo ago
    > If clean-room re-engineering a MIT code base starting from a GPL one is legit, then AI has just made that the status quo for everything. I agree; this is what I meant by "the value is being captured by someone else". GPL provides the author with a specific value - you get back improvements. Using AI to launder that IP so that improvements don't have to be upstreamed is effectively capturing the value.