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> You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your a

> You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. I have a hard time interpreting that as what geohotz is saying. If anything it seems to promote rent seekers by telling you - stick to your lane and don't complain. I.e. the caste system

simianwords 7mo ago
the problem is that there's good stuff in here but expressed in such a compressed way that it can be misused and misread. i completely agree with you and the post you are replying too. both are correct.
chunkyguy 7mo ago
You need to understand the context. The quote in Gita was to motivate the best warrior of the time at the battlefront facing opponents who were mainly his cousins and uncles. In that context the quote is about performing the duties you were born to do without overthinking the consequences.
- simianwords 7mo ago
  the context makes it even worse. its a strange kind of tribalism that is being promoted here. "do what you are asked to without understanding the real consequences". btw war is actual zero sum usually.
  - sl-1 7mo ago
    War is often times even negative sum game.
  - rgun 7mo ago
    Do what you are asked to ≠ Your duty. Duty of a warrior is to fight for his country/tribe/side. Duty of a king might be to reduce suffering for his subjects.
    - card_zero 7mo ago
      Historically, no. It's like Tennyson: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die.
ivell 7mo ago
> You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. > stick to your lane and don't complain. I.e. the caste system That verse is quite famous and the general interpretation as I understand is this. You have control on your actions but not on its results. The results depend not only on your actions but on many other factors outside of your control. Now, one can interpret that it is instruction to "stay in your lane", but I have not seen that interpretation so far in my life in India.
- card_zero 7mo ago
  So, "have a go, do you best, shit happens, don't worry about it".
- vivzkestrel 7mo ago
  you realize that the caste system that currently exists is completely different from what it was conceptualized as right? you most certainly want to read the conversation between yudhistra and nahusha that talks about caste https://vedabase.io/en/library/mbk/1/30/ https://vedabase.io/en/library/mbk/1/30/
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
  - ivell 7mo ago
    I don't think we actually know who conceptualized the caste system. Even Manusmriti seems to be not as old as we thought before. However, even in Mahabharatha there are examples of Karna and Ekalavya who despite having qualities (as Yudhishtira claims) of Kshathriya, they were rejected by the society as being lesser. It is possible that caste system is an extension and crystallization of nepotism. Typically professions and trade secrets are handed down the families and it is conceivable this was codified at some point far in the past. To claim that caste system has a more philosophical foundation would be a bit of a stretch in my point of view, especially when it has been throughout the history being used suppress.
devsda 7mo ago
> If anything it seems to promote rent seekers by telling you - stick to your lane and don't complain. I.e. the caste system I was wondering if that would come up and HN delivers without fail. Anyway, you are free to interpret it as you see fit. The guidance was for someone who was struggling with a moral dillema on facing relatives in war and undecided over action. It is not a diktat to work or provide unquestion labor. For anyone who understood the whole story and backdrop of the situation, a reasonable interpretation is - you are responsible for your actions but you cannot control the consequences of your actions due to many factors. - When you detach yourselves from results, you can do your job without anxiety. - do not let the fear over results be an excuse for inaction. Give it a read and decide for yourselves if you are not convinced. Even without the teachings part, the whole story of Gita is actually an epic story/novel with some strong and conflicted characters with elaborate back stories.
- DangitBobby 7mo ago
  What is the point of a job if not the results? How can you be responsible for your actions but not the consequences of your actions?
  - devsda 7mo ago
    > What is the point of a job if not the results? The idea is to not fret over results and give your best with dedication. E.g. An athlete shouldn't be worrying about their results while playing and should focus on the play. > How can you be responsible for your actions but not the consequences of your actions I only mentioned control of consequences not responsibility. It doesn't mean you are absolved of responsibility from consequences of your actions. Take driving. You can only control your actions but you cannot control what happens on the road. You are still responsible for your actions. Should the fear of the unknown on the road stop you from driving? Absolutely not.
    - rendaw 7mo ago
      Yeah, I think GP is right and this all feels like word play to me. Let's say you're making your ideal wood chair for your living room. You're "fretting" over getting the arms, legs perfectly aligned, surfaces smooth, identical chamfers, etc. But fretting is bad and makes it hard to get anything done so you stop. Then you end up with a roughshod chair. You shouldn't "fret" too much, but you also shouldn't "fret" too little. You should "fret" exactly the right amount which is... tautologically true, and not particularly insightful. Giving your best is committing yourself to fretting.

simianwords 7mo ago

the problem is that there's good stuff in here but expressed in such a compressed way that it can be misused and misread. i completely agree with you and the post you are replying too. both are correct.

chunkyguy 7mo ago

You need to understand the context. The quote in Gita was to motivate the best warrior of the time at the battlefront facing opponents who were mainly his cousins and uncles. In that context the quote is about performing the duties you were born to do without overthinking the consequences.

simianwords 7mo ago
the context makes it even worse. its a strange kind of tribalism that is being promoted here. "do what you are asked to without understanding the real consequences". btw war is actual zero sum usually.
- sl-1 7mo ago
  War is often times even negative sum game.
- rgun 7mo ago
  Do what you are asked to ≠ Your duty. Duty of a warrior is to fight for his country/tribe/side. Duty of a king might be to reduce suffering for his subjects.
  - card_zero 7mo ago
    Historically, no. It's like Tennyson: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die.

ivell 7mo ago

> You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. > stick to your lane and don't complain. I.e. the caste system That verse is quite famous and the general interpretation as I understand is this. You have control on your actions but not on its results. The results depend not only on your actions but on many other factors outside of your control. Now, one can interpret that it is instruction to "stay in your lane", but I have not seen that interpretation so far in my life in India.

card_zero 7mo ago
So, "have a go, do you best, shit happens, don't worry about it".
vivzkestrel 7mo ago
you realize that the caste system that currently exists is completely different from what it was conceptualized as right? you most certainly want to read the conversation between yudhistra and nahusha that talks about caste https://vedabase.io/en/library/mbk/1/30/ https://vedabase.io/en/library/mbk/1/30/
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- ivell 7mo ago
  I don't think we actually know who conceptualized the caste system. Even Manusmriti seems to be not as old as we thought before. However, even in Mahabharatha there are examples of Karna and Ekalavya who despite having qualities (as Yudhishtira claims) of Kshathriya, they were rejected by the society as being lesser. It is possible that caste system is an extension and crystallization of nepotism. Typically professions and trade secrets are handed down the families and it is conceivable this was codified at some point far in the past. To claim that caste system has a more philosophical foundation would be a bit of a stretch in my point of view, especially when it has been throughout the history being used suppress.

devsda 7mo ago

> If anything it seems to promote rent seekers by telling you - stick to your lane and don't complain. I.e. the caste system I was wondering if that would come up and HN delivers without fail. Anyway, you are free to interpret it as you see fit. The guidance was for someone who was struggling with a moral dillema on facing relatives in war and undecided over action. It is not a diktat to work or provide unquestion labor. For anyone who understood the whole story and backdrop of the situation, a reasonable interpretation is - you are responsible for your actions but you cannot control the consequences of your actions due to many factors. - When you detach yourselves from results, you can do your job without anxiety. - do not let the fear over results be an excuse for inaction. Give it a read and decide for yourselves if you are not convinced. Even without the teachings part, the whole story of Gita is actually an epic story/novel with some strong and conflicted characters with elaborate back stories.

DangitBobby 7mo ago
What is the point of a job if not the results? How can you be responsible for your actions but not the consequences of your actions?
- devsda 7mo ago
  > What is the point of a job if not the results? The idea is to not fret over results and give your best with dedication. E.g. An athlete shouldn't be worrying about their results while playing and should focus on the play. > How can you be responsible for your actions but not the consequences of your actions I only mentioned control of consequences not responsibility. It doesn't mean you are absolved of responsibility from consequences of your actions. Take driving. You can only control your actions but you cannot control what happens on the road. You are still responsible for your actions. Should the fear of the unknown on the road stop you from driving? Absolutely not.
  - rendaw 7mo ago
    Yeah, I think GP is right and this all feels like word play to me. Let's say you're making your ideal wood chair for your living room. You're "fretting" over getting the arms, legs perfectly aligned, surfaces smooth, identical chamfers, etc. But fretting is bad and makes it hard to get anything done so you stop. Then you end up with a roughshod chair. You shouldn't "fret" too much, but you also shouldn't "fret" too little. You should "fret" exactly the right amount which is... tautologically true, and not particularly insightful. Giving your best is committing yourself to fretting.