5 ms·
I am not laughing about PHP. To this very day many of my best projects are built on PHP. And while last 7 years I have spent in full stack JavaScript/TypeScript
by mewpmewp2 8mo ago
I am not laughing about PHP. To this very day many of my best projects are built on PHP. And while last 7 years I have spent in full stack JavaScript/TypeScript environment it has never produced the same things I was actually able to do with PHP.
I actually feel that things I built 15 years ago in PHP were better than anything I am trying to achieve with modern things that gets outdated every 6 months.
- jack_pp 8mo agowhat in God's Name could you do in PHP that you can't do in a modern framework?
- mewpmewp2 8mo agoYou can build those things in modern frameworks, it will just be more headache and will feel outdated in 6 months.
- the_lonely_time 8mo agoWhere are my backbone apps? In the trash? Me ember apps? Next to them. My create-react-apps? On top of those. My Next apps? Being trashed as we speak. My rails apps? Online and making money every year with minimal upgrade time. What the hell was I thinking.
- tdeck 8mo agoI'm guessing you avoided the CoffeeScript era of Rails, which is a good thing.
- Gigachad 8mo ago6 years ago I was writing apps in typescript and react, if I was starting a new project today I'd write it in typescript and react.
- ehnto 8mo agoPeople bicker about PHP and Javascript, sorry Typescript, like they aren't both mule languages peoppe pick up to get work done. They both matured really well through years of production use. They are in the same group, similar pedigree. If you were programming purely for the art of it, you would have had time to discover much nicer languages than either, but that's not what most people are doing so it doesn't really matter. They're different but they're about as good as eachother.
- tbossanova 8mo agoNothing; but PHP, in experienced hands, will be waaay more productive for small-to-medium things. One issue is that experienced hands are increasingly hard to come by. Truly big, complicated things, built by large teams or numbers of teams, teams with a lot of average brains or AIs trained on average brains, will be better off in something like Typescript/React. And everyone wants to work on the big complicated stuff. So the "modern frameworks" will continue to dominate while smaller, more niche shops will wonder why they waste their time.
- jack_pp 8mo agoI worked at a startup, they built their API in PHP because it was easy and fast. Now they're successful, app doesn't scale, high latency etc. What does their php code do? 95% of it is calling a DB. You're telling me today with LLM power multiplier it's THAT much faster to write in PHP compared to something that can actually have a future?
- arjvik 8mo agoby future do you mean Future<T> or metaphorical future? :)
- withinboredom 8mo agoI see what you did there.
- rurban 8mo agoPHP did better than python and perl. Python is doomed. PHP got a good jit already, a good OO lately, good frameworks, stable extensions. It has a company behind. Unlike python or ruby which break right and left all the time on updates. you have to use bunkers of venvs, without any security updates. A nightmare. PHP can scale and has a future.
- Incipient 8mo agoPython is doomed? That's new. You use python docker images pinned to a stable version (3.11 etc), and between bigger versions, you test and handle any breaking changes. I feel like this approach applies to pretty much every language? Who on earth raw dogs on "language:latest" and just hopes for the best? Granted I wouldn't be running Facebook's backend on something like this. But i feel that isn't a problem 95% of people need to deal with.
- dheera 8mo agoNot have to "build" anything. You edit code and it is already deployed on your dev instance. Deploying to production is just scp -rv * production:/var/www/ Beautifully simple. No npm build crap.
- jack_pp 8mo agoYou trade having to compile for actually having code that can scale
- ericd 8mo agoNot sure what you’re talking about, I scaled to millions of users on a pair of boxes with PHP, and its page generation time absolutely crushed Rails/Django times. Apache with mod PHP auto scales wonderfully.
- vachina 8mo agoIt can scale by the virtue of spending a lot less time processing the request
- lelanthran 8mo agoIt scales just fine the same way everything else scales: put a load balancer in front of multiple instances of your app.
- spiderfarmer 8mo agoYou don't know anything about the PHP ecosystem and it shows.
- tjoff 8mo agoMaking instant loading and user respecting sites.
- baq 8mo agoDon’t confuse php the language with php the way of webmaster 2006 vintage.
- spiderfarmer 8mo agoThose webmasters built the web a lot of people are now nostalgic about already.
- azangru 8mo agoCould you give examples of the modern frameworks that you have in mind?
- eqvinox 8mo agoThe comparison target for PHP is IMHO a good Python web framework, e.g. Django being the most popular one. I still don't understand how JavaScript is ever considered viable, TypeScript makes it workable I guess…
- giva 8mo agoI feel like today an engineer with a modern framework and AI con produce in an afternoon a product that deliver real value, something that 25 years ago would have required a full hour by a high schooler with MS Access.
- vardalab 8mo agoI was building awesome things with Access 20 years ago. I loved that thing. I wasn't even a software engineer. I was in the EE, but I needed a way to track process and it definitely outperformed. And the best thing, it didn't cost us anything. Everybody already had access, lol. I had 40 people use it in production, manufacturing cutting edge stuff. Definitely beat spreadsheets because Access gave you gui for operators.