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See this is why I think the whole age verification thing is backwards. If you want to create child friendly spaces then you need to verify someone's age is unde

by Spivak 7mo ago

See this is why I think the whole age verification thing is backwards. If you want to create child friendly spaces then you need to verify someone's age is under 18, 16, 13 etc.. That's a way more real and tangible harm than a teenager looking at a nudie mag.

intrasight 7mo ago
For sure. But age verification protocols can handle such rules: App to IdP: is this person 13-15 IdP: yes
- fakedang 7mo ago
  Is Persona an IdP or does it request you to verify with personal information every single time?
fc417fc802 7mo ago
Please check this box to confirm that you do _not_ possess a government issued photo ID ... Sorry, in order to use this service you will need to visit your local police station and have them verify that you are in fact a child ... Yeah I'm not seeing how this is supposed to work. I don't think age verification solves very many real world problems. (It does mitigate some, such as alcohol consumption. Just not most.)
- snackbroken 7mo ago
  >Yeah I'm not seeing how this is supposed to work You could verify the ID of an adult who vouches for the child they are a legal guardian of. That way, if it turns out that Brayden(M12) is actually Linda(F45) you know who to send law enforcement to to ask some very pointed questions. That said, I don't think online ID verification is effective and even if it was, it wouldn't be worth the level of mass privacy invasion. If your goal is actually to help kids who are victims of abuse, your efforts are much better spent elsewhere. For example: making child abuse report hotlines/websites more easily accessible and widely known, fixing social services so that they actually provide better help when requested instead of making things worse, better education for children about what is and is not OK behavior even from "trusted" adults, and how to get help from someone who isn't a relative when you need it. "Stranger danger" hysteria catches all the outrage and public discussion, but is the least common source of abuse.
  - freedomben 7mo ago
    > fixing social services so that they actually provide better help when requested instead of making things worse Agreed, and I wish more people would realize this. When I was a kid, one of my friend's brothers was accused of molestation. The accused kid was around 8 or 9 and the victim was around 5 or 6. The social services came in and immediately got the mom fired from her job (she was a school teacher), put the family through tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, utterly disrupted the lives of the entire family, got the accused kicked out of school and put in a special school for troubled kids (which itself brought a whole host of issues), and nearly ripped the family apart. There was no evidence at all of the crime, other than the word of the accuser (a 5 or 6 year old child). Fast forward a few years later and the accuser apologized profusely and admitted that it had never happened. Oh and also the accused was at a friend's house at the time of the supposed molestation, and the friends' parents had told the investigators that. Law enforcement dropped the case having determined it not likely to be true and certainly nowhere near the evidence for prosecution (in fact, there was evidence that the event never happened), but social services proceeded with all of the above anyway. So yeah, there's a lot of work to do to make anybody want to trust them to help rather than make everything worse.
- eloisant 7mo ago
  Enforce parental control (with a verified adult account for the parent) for all child accounts. The parent will input the real birthdate of their child, or it's their responsibility if the child encounters anything not age appropriate.

by Spivak 7mo ago

intrasight 7mo ago

For sure. But age verification protocols can handle such rules: App to IdP: is this person 13-15 IdP: yes

fakedang 7mo ago
Is Persona an IdP or does it request you to verify with personal information every single time?

fc417fc802 7mo ago

Please check this box to confirm that you do _not_ possess a government issued photo ID ... Sorry, in order to use this service you will need to visit your local police station and have them verify that you are in fact a child ... Yeah I'm not seeing how this is supposed to work. I don't think age verification solves very many real world problems. (It does mitigate some, such as alcohol consumption. Just not most.)

snackbroken 7mo ago
>Yeah I'm not seeing how this is supposed to work You could verify the ID of an adult who vouches for the child they are a legal guardian of. That way, if it turns out that Brayden(M12) is actually Linda(F45) you know who to send law enforcement to to ask some very pointed questions. That said, I don't think online ID verification is effective and even if it was, it wouldn't be worth the level of mass privacy invasion. If your goal is actually to help kids who are victims of abuse, your efforts are much better spent elsewhere. For example: making child abuse report hotlines/websites more easily accessible and widely known, fixing social services so that they actually provide better help when requested instead of making things worse, better education for children about what is and is not OK behavior even from "trusted" adults, and how to get help from someone who isn't a relative when you need it. "Stranger danger" hysteria catches all the outrage and public discussion, but is the least common source of abuse.
- freedomben 7mo ago
  > fixing social services so that they actually provide better help when requested instead of making things worse Agreed, and I wish more people would realize this. When I was a kid, one of my friend's brothers was accused of molestation. The accused kid was around 8 or 9 and the victim was around 5 or 6. The social services came in and immediately got the mom fired from her job (she was a school teacher), put the family through tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, utterly disrupted the lives of the entire family, got the accused kicked out of school and put in a special school for troubled kids (which itself brought a whole host of issues), and nearly ripped the family apart. There was no evidence at all of the crime, other than the word of the accuser (a 5 or 6 year old child). Fast forward a few years later and the accuser apologized profusely and admitted that it had never happened. Oh and also the accused was at a friend's house at the time of the supposed molestation, and the friends' parents had told the investigators that. Law enforcement dropped the case having determined it not likely to be true and certainly nowhere near the evidence for prosecution (in fact, there was evidence that the event never happened), but social services proceeded with all of the above anyway. So yeah, there's a lot of work to do to make anybody want to trust them to help rather than make everything worse.
eloisant 7mo ago
Enforce parental control (with a verified adult account for the parent) for all child accounts. The parent will input the real birthdate of their child, or it's their responsibility if the child encounters anything not age appropriate.