4 ms·
> Isn't this what parenthesizes are meant for? Parentheses add emphasis to a sentence or statement. Normally the use of it allows the sentence to be complete w
by orthogonal_cube 7mo ago
> Isn't this what parenthesizes are meant for?
Parentheses add emphasis to a sentence or statement. Normally the use of it allows the sentence to be complete with or without it.
Em dashes may also add or increase emphasis but are normally treated as an aside. Think of it as a comment by the author to inject themselves, sometimes in ways which do not form a complete sentence.
For example: When you read this sentence (in your mind) it should feel complete and correct. Perhaps you read in your own voice — something I don’t normally do — or without one at all.
> I don't understand what the issue even is here, and the RFC also doesn't clearly outline it.
The issue is written there but may not make sense unless you know someone who stylistically writes with high-than-average em dash usage. I, for example, get inquiries and comments at work from employees who ask what LLM model I used for “generating these reports” because of the presence of em dashes. They do not believe me when I say not a single word was written by LLMs because, “there’s an em dash. Only LLMs use em dashes!” This is categorically untrue and erodes the authenticity of work from people because of the correlation.
Their aim is to implement a new Unicode character which programs like text editors could inject when a person types an em dash. It attributes to a human being behind the document, typing characters out individually. Actions like copy-pasting text in bulk wouldn’t replace em dashes since it can’t attribute a human as writing it out.
- JCattheATM 7mo ago> Em dashes may also add or increase emphasis but are normally treated as an aside. Think of it as a comment by the author to inject themselves, sometimes in ways which do not form a complete sentence. A semicolon is better for this purpose. Good writing doesn't have mad tangents anyway, there should be a flow and natural transition.
- ImPostingOnHN 7mo agoA semicolon is for separating list items that follow a colon
- garciansmith 7mo agoSemicolons have more than one use. "In regular prose, a semicolon is most commonly used between two independent clauses not joined by a conjunction to signal a closer connection between them than a period would." Chicago Manual of Style, 18th Edition, 407.
- ImPostingOnHN 7mo agoAn em dash would be better for that purpose — good writing should flow, like an em dash.
- Izkata 7mo agoSemicolons start a new thought, they don't mark an aside that lets you return to the original line of thought. Like in their example: > For example: When you read this sentence (in your mind) it should feel complete and correct. Perhaps you read in your own voice — something I don’t normally do — or without one at all. I would have used parentheses in both places, and semicolons don't work in either one: > For example: When you read this sentence (in your mind) it should feel complete and correct. Perhaps you read in your own voice (something I don’t normally do) or without one at all.
- JCattheATM 7mo ago> Semicolons start a new thought, they don't mark an aside that lets you return to the original line of thought. Sure they do. They're perfect for a related tangent without abounding the greater scope topic being discussed. > I would have used parentheses in both places, and semicolons don't work in either one: Parentheses work no question and I would argue are far more appropriate in that example since it's a minor elaboration/clarification and not a tangent, indeed, semicolons would not be appropriate for that.
- orthogonal_cube 7mo ago> Good writing doesn't have mad tangents anyway, there should be a flow and natural transition. In general, yes. Technical documents, research reports, news articles, and other formal publications should follow this. Anything else which allows a bit more freedom in expression? I’d say it’s a matter of taste.
- JCattheATM 7mo agoI had freewritten, generally free expression type documents in mind when I wrote my statement, e.g. blog articles or opinion pieces. The problem is 'a matter of taste' can be used to excuse/justify anything.
- ssl-3 7mo agoThat's more of a feature than it is a problem.
- JCattheATM 7mo agoAgree to disagree. It allows badly written stuff to be defended, I would argue more often than alternative more acceptable case scenarios.
- ssl-3 7mo agoOutside of settings requiring formalized style, people are free to write and to speak however they wish. Others are free to dislike this.
- JCattheATM 7mo ago> people are free to write and to speak however they wish. Yes, that doesn't mean standards don't exist, nor that good and bad writing styles don't exist. Don't be one of those 'everything is subjective' doofuses, please.
- monodeldiablo 7mo agoYou and Kurt Vonnegut seem to disagree here. He made liberal use of em dashes and hated semicolons. And he was a giant of literature. The problem with your definition of "good writing" is that it's entirely subjective. Just like Vonnegut's.
- JCattheATM 7mo ago> You and Kurt Vonnegut seem to disagree here. He made liberal use of em dashes and hated semicolons. Got some samples you would care to share? I'm skeptical we disagree, honestly. One can have preferences for different writing styles, and write in a way that works with preferred punctuation rather than against it. > The problem with your definition of "good writing" is that it's entirely subjective. I disagree. Subjectivity is only true to a point. Someone might like Independence Day 2 more than Citizen Kane, but the latter is objectively a better film.
- monodeldiablo 7mo agoHis word choice about semicolons is problematic for other reasons, so I won't quote it here, but Vonnegut made his views on punctuation and story structure very known. An internet search will provide it to you readily. And anybody who's read his works is familiar with his love of the em dash. But more to his -- and my -- point: He also regularly encouraged people to flout rules and standards. His famous quote about semicolons, when read in its original context, is followed by a sentence with a semicolon! He was a subversive author who abhorred mindless compliance and begged us to remain inquisitive. Subversion of accepted standards lies at the heart of all creativity. And as creative works enter the broader discourse, they themselves shape new standards. It's why our languages are always changing. Your point about Citizen Kane and Independence Day 2 is nonsensical, and presumes we all have the same goals when consuming entertainment. I'm not going to engage in that argument.
- JCattheATM 7mo ago> An internet search will provide it to you readily. I'm not interested in doing the work to support your point for you. > Your point about Citizen Kane and Independence Day 2 is nonsensical, and presumes we all have the same goals when consuming entertainment. I'm not going to engage in that argument. It's not nonsensical at all, makes no presumptions and makes the point perfectly. You don't want to engage because you are unable to do so, which is absolutely fine.