3 ms·

In a real fight, the F-35 smokes the F-16 beyond visual range before the F-16 even knows there is a problem. The radar and electronic warfare capabilities are i

by esseph 8mo ago

In a real fight, the F-35 smokes the F-16 beyond visual range before the F-16 even knows there is a problem. The radar and electronic warfare capabilities are incredible.

dylan604 8mo ago
Isn't modern tactics to not use onboard radar but to be driven in by airborne radar from AWACs? Or is it used once in the furball as the jig is up at that point?
- wkrp 8mo ago
  Modern tactics are to use every radar around via datalink (AWACS, Ground Station, stealthy drones flying ahead). The onboard radar is last resort, but still very capable.
  - dylan604 8mo ago
    Right, so I wonder what difficulties they are having with the F-16 to retrofit the new package to receive the same datalink.
    - kevin_thibedeau 8mo ago
      The US is stuck with older F-16s than the current export models with advanced radar. They're gradually being upgraded with some Block 70 components. That requires the new cockpit so it isn't just a quick part substitution.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    Useless tidbit about myself: Back in the mid-90s I was in the USAF in the 552nd Air Control Group, and the team I was on specifically did the 'external test' of the data link. Spent a lot of time in a simulator pushing buttons pretending to be an AWACS guy on a plane while recording all of the data, then later painstakingly comparing that data to the manual log and radio recordings. I would be interested to see how far they've brought the technology in the intervening, uh ... 30 years. Damn. That old computer (old by technology, ours was pretty new in practical terms) was the only mainframe I've ever used. Booted it up by loading a tape reel and programming registers. I still remember that the 'happy' code was something like 0B00BE in between cycles, anything else and it had crashed. /end trip down memory lane
    - dylan604 8mo ago
      I'm sure everyone's inner 13 year old laughed at the code to the point you have to wonder if the devs didn't deliberately pick it
- mmooss 8mo ago
  My very amatuer understanding is that modern combat for the US is based on a 'combat network', which creates a massive situational advantage by connecting all sensors - on satellites, planes, drones, ground radars, from intelligence, etc. - in a network and sharing the data across the network. The F-35 is designed as a node in that network, and afaik is one of the most advanced sensor nodes. It also receives data from the network, but it is a major contributor (partly due to operating in front, often in enemy territory, etc., afaik). Part of using the network data is having an onboard computer that can make sense of it. Even in older planes without the network input and with smaller sensor areas, pilots faced cognitive overload from trying to interpret relatively raw data from a half-dozen or more sensors each on their own output device (screen, etc). - what's a bird, what's an ally, what's a non-combatant, what's an enemy and what's a missile - all while piloting a plane, being shot at, etc. F-35's have a computer that integrates the inputs, refines the data, identifies objects, and displays that in a unified UI on ~1 screen. Another reason for the investment in its sensors is that situational awareness is considered by far the most decisive factor in air combat. Whoever sees and shoots first tends to win. Also, it needs to survive and be effective if cut off from outside communications.

by esseph 8mo ago

In a real fight, the F-35 smokes the F-16 beyond visual range before the F-16 even knows there is a problem. The radar and electronic warfare capabilities are incredible.

dylan604 8mo ago

Isn't modern tactics to not use onboard radar but to be driven in by airborne radar from AWACs? Or is it used once in the furball as the jig is up at that point?

wkrp 8mo ago
Modern tactics are to use every radar around via datalink (AWACS, Ground Station, stealthy drones flying ahead). The onboard radar is last resort, but still very capable.
- dylan604 8mo ago
  Right, so I wonder what difficulties they are having with the F-16 to retrofit the new package to receive the same datalink.
  - kevin_thibedeau 8mo ago
    The US is stuck with older F-16s than the current export models with advanced radar. They're gradually being upgraded with some Block 70 components. That requires the new cockpit so it isn't just a quick part substitution.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  Useless tidbit about myself: Back in the mid-90s I was in the USAF in the 552nd Air Control Group, and the team I was on specifically did the 'external test' of the data link. Spent a lot of time in a simulator pushing buttons pretending to be an AWACS guy on a plane while recording all of the data, then later painstakingly comparing that data to the manual log and radio recordings. I would be interested to see how far they've brought the technology in the intervening, uh ... 30 years. Damn. That old computer (old by technology, ours was pretty new in practical terms) was the only mainframe I've ever used. Booted it up by loading a tape reel and programming registers. I still remember that the 'happy' code was something like 0B00BE in between cycles, anything else and it had crashed. /end trip down memory lane
  - dylan604 8mo ago
    I'm sure everyone's inner 13 year old laughed at the code to the point you have to wonder if the devs didn't deliberately pick it
mmooss 8mo ago
My very amatuer understanding is that modern combat for the US is based on a 'combat network', which creates a massive situational advantage by connecting all sensors - on satellites, planes, drones, ground radars, from intelligence, etc. - in a network and sharing the data across the network. The F-35 is designed as a node in that network, and afaik is one of the most advanced sensor nodes. It also receives data from the network, but it is a major contributor (partly due to operating in front, often in enemy territory, etc., afaik). Part of using the network data is having an onboard computer that can make sense of it. Even in older planes without the network input and with smaller sensor areas, pilots faced cognitive overload from trying to interpret relatively raw data from a half-dozen or more sensors each on their own output device (screen, etc). - what's a bird, what's an ally, what's a non-combatant, what's an enemy and what's a missile - all while piloting a plane, being shot at, etc. F-35's have a computer that integrates the inputs, refines the data, identifies objects, and displays that in a unified UI on ~1 screen. Another reason for the investment in its sensors is that situational awareness is considered by far the most decisive factor in air combat. Whoever sees and shoots first tends to win. Also, it needs to survive and be effective if cut off from outside communications.