5 ms·
Doesn't the same logic apply to parking tickets?
by moduspol 7mo ago
Doesn't the same logic apply to parking tickets?
- Tactical45 7mo agoAnd speed light cameras
- atomicUpdate 7mo agoWhat is a speed light camera?
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- causal 7mo agoNo. Parking is leaving your possession somewhere and should apply to the registered owner. It is not illegal to own a car that someone else used to run a red light.
- spunker540 7mo agoNo. Running a red light is when your possession crosses an intersection while the light is red, and should apply to the registered owner.
- Muromec 7mo agoOr is it?
- interestpiqued 7mo agoIf I lend a neighbor my kitchen knife and they murder someone with it, should I be liable?
- vkou 7mo agoWhen subpoenaed, you'd be obligated to tell the court who you gave the knife to. But if you'd like to tell the fall, I'm sure some prosecutors wouldn't dig too hard to find the guilty party.
- interestpiqued 7mo agoIt seems in this case they’re not asking, they’re accusing and saying I need to prove otherwise. I think that is substantively different Edit: subpoena is not a criminal charge afaik is what I’m saying
- gus_massa 7mo ago3 year before the murder: You are probably fine, IANAL 10 minutes before the murder: Expect to get an accusation of accessory to murder, conspiracy to murder and a few additional tomes of the penal code. We all know you are innocent, but you should better find a good lawyer just in case instead of wasting your last free minutes arguing on the internet.
- dghlsakjg 7mo agoYou absolutely can be, especially if you knew, or should have known, that the knife was likely to be used illegally. While a bit more extreme than your example, there have been multiple cases where the parents of a school shooter have been held responsible because they provided access to a weapon when there were warning signs. On the less extreme end of the spectrum, this is the same reason why you have to pretend that you are buying a "water pipe for tobacco" and not a bong if you don't want to get kicked out of the headshop (in places where that is still illegal).
- moduspol 7mo agoI didn't leave my possession. I just owned a car that someone else left.
- hxorr 7mo agoBut is it illegal to own a car that someone else parked in the wrong pkace?
- vkou 7mo agoIf someone used the car without permission, they are guilty of theft. If they used the car with your permission, you should either be responsible for what they do with it, or be able to point to the person who was using it.
- degamad 7mo ago> If someone used the car without permission, they are guilty of theft. Sure, but I still don't know who they are, so I can't give their name over for either investigating the theft or reassigning the speeding/red light/parking fine.
- zoky 7mo agoExcept that requiring you to testify in order to absolve yourself of guilt violates your Fifth Amendment right not to testify in a trial against you. It is up to the government to prove you did something, not up to you to prove you didn’t.
- vkou 7mo agoYou can not testify all you want, but you should still be on the hook for your vehicle getting tickets, just like you are on the hook for your vehicle accruing toll fees. If your car was magically stolen and returned, and you have no idea that it happened, or who could have done this... Well, that's certainly an interesting legal argument that you could make to a judge. I doubt he'll believe you.
- LorenPechtel 7mo agoIn the old days it certainly happened. Joyriding. Take someone's vehicle for a spin, put it back. Illegal but nowhere near as serious a penalty. Car security systems have gotten a lot better since then.
- jojobas 7mo agoSurely the framing is "we the people allow you to operate this (otherwise illegal) dangerous vehicle on public roads, on the condition that by default you are responsible for whatever transgressions".
- lnenad 7mo agoWho is leaving your possession is just as relevant as who is driving your possession?
- causal 7mo agoWow this sparked a lot of tedious debate. Just wanted to clarify that I'm talking about the law as written, not some high-level philosophical ideal.
- wifipunk 7mo agoAlmost, except parking tickets are still typically civil “owner-liability” citations tied to where the car is parked, while red-light violations are intended to target the driver’s conduct
- horsawlarway 7mo agopossibly, although I suspect the quote from above: > Although nominally civil, traffic infraction proceedings retain every substantive hallmark of criminal prosecution... Is going to matter here. A moving violation (ex: red light) is quite different from a non-moving violation (ex: parking) in how they're handled, and often how they're classified. Ex - my in state, a moving violation is a criminal misdemeanor, while a non-moving violation is entirely civil.
- devman0 7mo agoIdk how Florida handles it but several states citations issued by red light cameras and those issued by officers are handled entirely differently for the exact reason you mention. Camera citations are entirely civil, you don't get points against your license. If a cop issues the ticket it does become a misdemeanor moving violation.
- bdangubic 7mo agothere is no state where a moving violation is criminal misdemeanor. some moving violations may be CM but there are myriad of moving violations whose class/degree is not CM. CM is serious class/degree that if you are charged with it you better get yourself an attorney.
- tsimionescu 7mo agoThat quote is from the judge's decision: he considers that moving violations are quasi-criminal proceedings, and as such, that the protections for criminal prosecution apply, unlike in purely civil cases.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo agoDo parking tickets result in “a formal finding of guilt, and consequences tied to a driver’s record”?
- otterley 7mo agoNo.