3 ms·

And now realise the same is true for your robot vacuum, car camera, doorbell camera, etc etc We consumers have no protection against big tech

SoftTalker 7mo ago
Don't use it.
Semaphor 7mo ago
Sure you do. All of those are available in local versions without Internet. Youjust need to care enough, be able to afford them (while my vacuum has no camera, it requires the cloud, but it was significantly cheaper than a local or hackable one), and have the ability to self host something like home assistant.
- simmerup 7mo ago
  How about we just enforce minimum privacy standards on big tech instead? Sure you can root all your own hardware but you can’t stop the fact that your walk down the street is documented by Amazon and Google front door bells There is no opt out of this surveillance if you live in modern society
  - whilenot-dev 7mo ago
    > if you live in modern society Quite an if you got there... pointing security or doorbell cameras to public spaces isn't legal where I live.
    - AlecSchueler 7mo ago
      It isn't legal where I live either, but about half the doors on my street have them anyway.
  - zombot 7mo ago
    The law should require it to be opt-in, ffs.
- Gigachad 7mo ago
  And what are you doing about everyone elses amazon cameras that are watching you wherever you go, all uploaded to the cloud and processed by AI.
  - Semaphor 7mo ago
    That does requires laws. We have those here.
pseudocomposer 7mo ago
We definitely don’t have any hard boundaries baked into this tech preventing big tech from (ab)using our data this way. But are there specific companies you think are doing this? I think with Meta products, it’s been rather obvious for a long time. But I’ve had a Nest doorbell camera and thermostats for years, and first iRobot and now Roborock vacuums, and they don’t really seem so suspect.
- autoexec 7mo ago
  You should assume that Google is collecting every scrap of data they can from nest products and that your data will (or could) be handed over to police and the state with or without warrants and with zero notice to you. There were concerns raised with irobot devices selling the floorplans of your home (https://gizmodo.com/roombas-next-big-step-is-selling-maps-of-your-home-to-t-1797187829 https://gizmodo.com/roombas-next-big-step-is-selling-maps-of...) and now its owned by China (Picea) so who knows what they're doing. Roborock is also a Chinese company who appears to have been under investigation in Korea for data leaks (https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2025-03-05/business/industry/Korea-investigating-Roborock-vacuum-cleaners-for-potential-data-leaks/2255484 https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2025-03-05/busines...). At this point I'd consider anything not locally hosted (and certainly anything owned by Google, Amazon, or facebook) to be highly suspect.
  - idiotsecant 7mo ago
    Not your compute, not your data.
- simmerup 7mo ago
  Amazon literally just put out a superbowl ad of them using their (your?) front door cam feeds to find people. They are all dipping into our data for their ends, Meta is just particularly sloppy/honest about it
boomskats 7mo ago
Speak for yourself, I rooted my vacuum the day I bought it
- BLKNSLVR 7mo ago
  And Meta employees have re-watched the footage of you performing that act a number of times.
- MisterTea 7mo ago
  My vacuum is so dumb that I have to push it around.
indubioprorubik 7mo ago
At least the vacuum does not try to start a civil war for add impressions..
- TheOtherHobbes 7mo ago
  Yet.
anonym29 7mo ago
>We consumers have no protection against big tech Stop buying it. You are not a robot that is forced to purchase a video doorbell or a robotic vacuum cleaner or a smart thermostat. You have free will. If you do not like a commercially available product, don't buy it, don't use it. It's that simple.
- jasonlotito 7mo ago
  I think it's a reasonable ask that when buying a product, it has reasonable levels of safety, security, and privacy. Especially with products that might change over time because of software updates. Yes, there are ToS, but it's fine for us as a society to say that consumers deserve more protection against big tech so we aren't a TOS update away from having everything shared or be used for something that wasn't promoted. > You have free will. If you do not like a commercially available product, don't buy it, don't use it. Caveat emptor. But lemon laws exist, too. And, a commercially available product now might not be the same a year from now.
  - munk-a 7mo ago
    There's compelling reasons for all sorts of home devices to be connected to the internet[1] but the rub is that ToS flexibility and software updates make this a backdoor waiting to happen. I feel like our legal system has significantly failed us by not empowering the consume to say "I accept your device with a wifi antenna for the purposes of updating and I reject any exfiltration of personal data from it to your servers". You can have such a contract written - but this is really a place where something like a consumer advocacy board should step in and make sure those rights and sanely guaranteed. 1. It'd be great to ease the method for updating, it'd be nice to be able to easily monitor the device especially if it could become active in some manner while you're absent (I don't want the stove turning on to broil right after I leave on a three month vacation)
    - autoexec 7mo ago
      > I feel like our legal system has significantly failed us by not empowering the consume to say "I accept your device with a wifi antenna for the purposes of updating and I reject any exfiltration of personal data from it to your servers". Worse it's allowed for them to remote into your device and disable features that you bought the device to use, by paywalling them off behind a subscription service that didn't exist when you brought the product home or just them entirely. To me that's no different than theft. It doesn't matter if it's amazon logging into you kindle overnight and removing books you already paid for from your virtual bookshelf, or Sony pushing an update to remove the option to use linux on your PS3, or BMW deciding that you should have to pay them every month just to use the heated seats option you already paid for when you bought your car. If I, as an individual, sold you something than broke into your house to steal it or break it or demand ransom to get parts back that would be a crime, but companies get away with it somehow. What Google, Facebook, and Amazon do are basically just stalking.
scubadude 7mo ago
Don't buy the shit. You don't need a smart doorbell or robot vacuum at a minimum.
chaostheory 7mo ago
> We consumers have no protection against big tech I like to call big tech, “Little Sister” since governments are “Big Brother”
- TheOtherHobbes 7mo ago
  They're both Big Brother. And they both charge an annual subscription.
- autoexec 7mo ago
  I recommend switching to "Creepy Uncle"
_carbyau_ 7mo ago
Obligatory Valetudo reference. Replace the robovac firmware so it doesn't do cloud. https://valetudo.cloud/ https://valetudo.cloud/ Can't help with the rest unfortunately.

SoftTalker 7mo ago

Don't use it.

Semaphor 7mo ago

Sure you do. All of those are available in local versions without Internet. Youjust need to care enough, be able to afford them (while my vacuum has no camera, it requires the cloud, but it was significantly cheaper than a local or hackable one), and have the ability to self host something like home assistant.

simmerup 7mo ago
How about we just enforce minimum privacy standards on big tech instead? Sure you can root all your own hardware but you can’t stop the fact that your walk down the street is documented by Amazon and Google front door bells There is no opt out of this surveillance if you live in modern society
- whilenot-dev 7mo ago
  > if you live in modern society Quite an if you got there... pointing security or doorbell cameras to public spaces isn't legal where I live.
  - AlecSchueler 7mo ago
    It isn't legal where I live either, but about half the doors on my street have them anyway.
- zombot 7mo ago
  The law should require it to be opt-in, ffs.
Gigachad 7mo ago
And what are you doing about everyone elses amazon cameras that are watching you wherever you go, all uploaded to the cloud and processed by AI.
- Semaphor 7mo ago
  That does requires laws. We have those here.

pseudocomposer 7mo ago

We definitely don’t have any hard boundaries baked into this tech preventing big tech from (ab)using our data this way. But are there specific companies you think are doing this? I think with Meta products, it’s been rather obvious for a long time. But I’ve had a Nest doorbell camera and thermostats for years, and first iRobot and now Roborock vacuums, and they don’t really seem so suspect.

autoexec 7mo ago
You should assume that Google is collecting every scrap of data they can from nest products and that your data will (or could) be handed over to police and the state with or without warrants and with zero notice to you. There were concerns raised with irobot devices selling the floorplans of your home (https://gizmodo.com/roombas-next-big-step-is-selling-maps-of-your-home-to-t-1797187829 https://gizmodo.com/roombas-next-big-step-is-selling-maps-of...) and now its owned by China (Picea) so who knows what they're doing. Roborock is also a Chinese company who appears to have been under investigation in Korea for data leaks (https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2025-03-05/business/industry/Korea-investigating-Roborock-vacuum-cleaners-for-potential-data-leaks/2255484 https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2025-03-05/busines...). At this point I'd consider anything not locally hosted (and certainly anything owned by Google, Amazon, or facebook) to be highly suspect.
- idiotsecant 7mo ago
  Not your compute, not your data.
simmerup 7mo ago
Amazon literally just put out a superbowl ad of them using their (your?) front door cam feeds to find people. They are all dipping into our data for their ends, Meta is just particularly sloppy/honest about it

boomskats 7mo ago

Speak for yourself, I rooted my vacuum the day I bought it

BLKNSLVR 7mo ago
And Meta employees have re-watched the footage of you performing that act a number of times.
MisterTea 7mo ago
My vacuum is so dumb that I have to push it around.

indubioprorubik 7mo ago

At least the vacuum does not try to start a civil war for add impressions..

TheOtherHobbes 7mo ago
Yet.

anonym29 7mo ago

>We consumers have no protection against big tech Stop buying it. You are not a robot that is forced to purchase a video doorbell or a robotic vacuum cleaner or a smart thermostat. You have free will. If you do not like a commercially available product, don't buy it, don't use it. It's that simple.

jasonlotito 7mo ago
I think it's a reasonable ask that when buying a product, it has reasonable levels of safety, security, and privacy. Especially with products that might change over time because of software updates. Yes, there are ToS, but it's fine for us as a society to say that consumers deserve more protection against big tech so we aren't a TOS update away from having everything shared or be used for something that wasn't promoted. > You have free will. If you do not like a commercially available product, don't buy it, don't use it. Caveat emptor. But lemon laws exist, too. And, a commercially available product now might not be the same a year from now.
- munk-a 7mo ago
  There's compelling reasons for all sorts of home devices to be connected to the internet[1] but the rub is that ToS flexibility and software updates make this a backdoor waiting to happen. I feel like our legal system has significantly failed us by not empowering the consume to say "I accept your device with a wifi antenna for the purposes of updating and I reject any exfiltration of personal data from it to your servers". You can have such a contract written - but this is really a place where something like a consumer advocacy board should step in and make sure those rights and sanely guaranteed. 1. It'd be great to ease the method for updating, it'd be nice to be able to easily monitor the device especially if it could become active in some manner while you're absent (I don't want the stove turning on to broil right after I leave on a three month vacation)
  - autoexec 7mo ago
    > I feel like our legal system has significantly failed us by not empowering the consume to say "I accept your device with a wifi antenna for the purposes of updating and I reject any exfiltration of personal data from it to your servers". Worse it's allowed for them to remote into your device and disable features that you bought the device to use, by paywalling them off behind a subscription service that didn't exist when you brought the product home or just them entirely. To me that's no different than theft. It doesn't matter if it's amazon logging into you kindle overnight and removing books you already paid for from your virtual bookshelf, or Sony pushing an update to remove the option to use linux on your PS3, or BMW deciding that you should have to pay them every month just to use the heated seats option you already paid for when you bought your car. If I, as an individual, sold you something than broke into your house to steal it or break it or demand ransom to get parts back that would be a crime, but companies get away with it somehow. What Google, Facebook, and Amazon do are basically just stalking.

scubadude 7mo ago

Don't buy the shit. You don't need a smart doorbell or robot vacuum at a minimum.

chaostheory 7mo ago

> We consumers have no protection against big tech I like to call big tech, “Little Sister” since governments are “Big Brother”

TheOtherHobbes 7mo ago
They're both Big Brother. And they both charge an annual subscription.
autoexec 7mo ago
I recommend switching to "Creepy Uncle"

_carbyau_ 7mo ago

Obligatory Valetudo reference. Replace the robovac firmware so it doesn't do cloud. https://valetudo.cloud/ https://valetudo.cloud/ Can't help with the rest unfortunately.