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They should have collaborated with GrapheneOS like Motorola instead of starting from scratch with Linux and a proprietary user interface. As it stands, this ph

by drnick1 8mo ago

They should have collaborated with GrapheneOS like Motorola instead of starting from scratch with Linux and a proprietary user interface. As it stands, this phone will have worse security than a Pixel with Graphene or the upcoming Motorola phone. It's not an improvement over common closed source Android varieties either, and will certainly have worse app compatibility than Android. Hardware switches are irrelevant if you can't trust the software.

jasonvorhe 8mo ago
Agreed. Also, the second I found out that their entire UI stack is proprietary I lost all interest in that platform.
- fsflover 8mo ago
  Don't the security hardware features of the GrapheneOS phones also rely on proprietary software/firmware?
  - jasonvorhe 8mo ago
    To my knowledge you have some proprietary firmware blobs, drivers, HAL and the Trusted Execution Environment shipping with GrapheneOS. But replacing Pixel's stock Android with GrapheneOS doesn't expose you to more proprietary components but instead reduces it (by sandboxing Google Play Services for example) and improves upon Android security overall (memory allocation, etc). So yeah, GrapheneOS isn't 100% OSS, as far as I'm aware. But it doesn't expose me to more proprietary stuff like Jolla would.
    - fsflover 8mo ago
      You're not wrong, but the main selling point of GrapheneOS in comparison to other options is security, and it relies on proprietary software. So to me it looks a bit similar, although I agree that less blobs is definitely important.
embedding-shape 8mo ago
> They should have collaborated with GrapheneOS like Motorola Well, Motorola is already doing that :) I for one is happy that there is at least someone out there not happy with the status quo and go with something completely different and homegrown instead of just going with customizing Android and calling it a day.
distances 8mo ago
They didn't start from scratch, the first Jolla phone was released in 2013. The Sailfish OS continues the Maemo/MeeGo lineage that Nokia abandoned.
mpol 8mo ago
Did GrapheneOS even exist in 2012? There is history at play here, they are still building forward from the Nokia Linux phones. Also, what's up with all the sour grapes from people who use or develop GrapheneOS? There seems to be a general force dismissing Sailfish as insecure, without ever explaning how. Can't we just be friends in a de-googled world? Are people from Graphene feeling insecure about Sailfish as competition? It feels to me like infighting in small churches. It turns me off from ever considering GrapheneOS before I even looked into it.
NicuCalcea 8mo ago
Their entire raison d'être is to make Sailfish OS (non-Android Linux) phones. I'm happy they're doing it. Graphene OS is great but it's just another Android ROM and still dependent on Google.
- NewJazz 8mo ago
  They could have done both. GrapheneOS is as dependent on google as their android app compatibility layrr, if I had to guess.
miohtama 8mo ago
They cannot, because for some reason GrapheneOS is shitting on them https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2029651838975328512 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2029651838975328512
- drnick1 8mo ago
  Is there anything inaccurate in that post by the Graphene devs however?
- NicuCalcea 8mo ago
  Graphene OS really like to shit on competing projects, it seems. Maybe they're right, but it seems a bit obsessive. /e/OS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1946269698498105813 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1946269698498105813 iodéOS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1892555359656534284 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1892555359656534284 CalyxOS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1953856218931376421 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1953856218931376421 Unplugged: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1861593971685798351 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1861593971685798351 PinePhone: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1964441930760409499 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1964441930760409499
  - fsflover 8mo ago
    More projects: Kicksecure: https://forums.kicksecure.com/t/grapheneos-attacks-kicksecure-what-should-the-response-be/739 https://forums.kicksecure.com/t/grapheneos-attacks-kicksecur... Purism Librem 5 and Pinephone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47260196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47260196
- gruez 8mo ago
  Seems fair given that it was in response to a tweet referring to the phone as "ULTRA secure!"
  - miohtama 8mo ago
    Yes but that was not from Jolla, but some random Twitter user. They were also shitting on it earlier in December, so GrapheneOS is probably run by some teenagers going through problematic puberty https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115685433938468549 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115685433938468549
heavyset_go 8mo ago
This is part of the (spiritual) lineage of Meego/Maemo, it's much older than GrapheneOS and the latter is older than Android itself Anyway, it's as secure as any Linux distro as it uses the same standard stack as servers and desktops and does sandboxing[1], which is also really nice from a development perspective. You can harden it like you would a Linux box using standard Linux tools + kernel features. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Software_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Software_architect...

by drnick1 8mo ago

jasonvorhe 8mo ago

Agreed. Also, the second I found out that their entire UI stack is proprietary I lost all interest in that platform.

fsflover 8mo ago
Don't the security hardware features of the GrapheneOS phones also rely on proprietary software/firmware?
- jasonvorhe 8mo ago
  To my knowledge you have some proprietary firmware blobs, drivers, HAL and the Trusted Execution Environment shipping with GrapheneOS. But replacing Pixel's stock Android with GrapheneOS doesn't expose you to more proprietary components but instead reduces it (by sandboxing Google Play Services for example) and improves upon Android security overall (memory allocation, etc). So yeah, GrapheneOS isn't 100% OSS, as far as I'm aware. But it doesn't expose me to more proprietary stuff like Jolla would.
  - fsflover 8mo ago
    You're not wrong, but the main selling point of GrapheneOS in comparison to other options is security, and it relies on proprietary software. So to me it looks a bit similar, although I agree that less blobs is definitely important.

embedding-shape 8mo ago

> They should have collaborated with GrapheneOS like Motorola Well, Motorola is already doing that :) I for one is happy that there is at least someone out there not happy with the status quo and go with something completely different and homegrown instead of just going with customizing Android and calling it a day.

distances 8mo ago

They didn't start from scratch, the first Jolla phone was released in 2013. The Sailfish OS continues the Maemo/MeeGo lineage that Nokia abandoned.

mpol 8mo ago

Did GrapheneOS even exist in 2012? There is history at play here, they are still building forward from the Nokia Linux phones. Also, what's up with all the sour grapes from people who use or develop GrapheneOS? There seems to be a general force dismissing Sailfish as insecure, without ever explaning how. Can't we just be friends in a de-googled world? Are people from Graphene feeling insecure about Sailfish as competition? It feels to me like infighting in small churches. It turns me off from ever considering GrapheneOS before I even looked into it.

NicuCalcea 8mo ago

Their entire raison d'être is to make Sailfish OS (non-Android Linux) phones. I'm happy they're doing it. Graphene OS is great but it's just another Android ROM and still dependent on Google.

NewJazz 8mo ago
They could have done both. GrapheneOS is as dependent on google as their android app compatibility layrr, if I had to guess.

miohtama 8mo ago

They cannot, because for some reason GrapheneOS is shitting on them https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2029651838975328512 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2029651838975328512

drnick1 8mo ago
Is there anything inaccurate in that post by the Graphene devs however?
NicuCalcea 8mo ago
Graphene OS really like to shit on competing projects, it seems. Maybe they're right, but it seems a bit obsessive. /e/OS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1946269698498105813 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1946269698498105813 iodéOS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1892555359656534284 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1892555359656534284 CalyxOS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1953856218931376421 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1953856218931376421 Unplugged: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1861593971685798351 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1861593971685798351 PinePhone: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1964441930760409499 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1964441930760409499
- fsflover 8mo ago
  More projects: Kicksecure: https://forums.kicksecure.com/t/grapheneos-attacks-kicksecure-what-should-the-response-be/739 https://forums.kicksecure.com/t/grapheneos-attacks-kicksecur... Purism Librem 5 and Pinephone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47260196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47260196
gruez 8mo ago
Seems fair given that it was in response to a tweet referring to the phone as "ULTRA secure!"
- miohtama 8mo ago
  Yes but that was not from Jolla, but some random Twitter user. They were also shitting on it earlier in December, so GrapheneOS is probably run by some teenagers going through problematic puberty https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115685433938468549 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/115685433938468549

heavyset_go 8mo ago

This is part of the (spiritual) lineage of Meego/Maemo, it's much older than GrapheneOS and the latter is older than Android itself Anyway, it's as secure as any Linux distro as it uses the same standard stack as servers and desktops and does sandboxing[1], which is also really nice from a development perspective. You can harden it like you would a Linux box using standard Linux tools + kernel features. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Software_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Software_architect...