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The UK has been chronically bad at providing jobs and training for its young people. I saw that 20 years ago when I was there. That is a key reason, perhaps the

by mrwh 7mo ago

The UK has been chronically bad at providing jobs and training for its young people. I saw that 20 years ago when I was there. That is a key reason, perhaps the primary reason, for its long term productivity malaise. And the response is to lean into a technology that will make this situation profoundly worse? It's another lazy quick fix that is neither quick nor a real fix. The UK needs to invest in its people, not funnel yet more money to big tech.

tim333 7mo ago
Patrick Boyle had I thought a very good youtube on what's gone wrong - not enough investment in productive capital and too much propping up house prices roughly https://youtu.be/T3neJOdknqc https://youtu.be/T3neJOdknqc
- zcw100 7mo ago
  I really enjoy Patrick Boyle's reports. Really high information content with very little fluff. I love how he sneaks in the deadpan snarky comment every once in a while.
slavoingilizov 7mo ago
The UK has 3 of the top 10 universities in the world: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/latest/world-ranking https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin... It's a talent pool that many big employers want to tap into across a range of skills and industries. Cambridge is the best place to do bio-science and research. That is largely because the UK provides training and opportunities to its young people. "I saw that 20 years go" is one data point that ignores the wider statistics. I'm not sure what else you can back your argument with.
- mrwh 7mo ago
  That's rather the point: the UK has been great at educating a very narrow sliver of its population, decided at 18 years old. Pointing to Oxbridge as a success story is very much like pointing to London as a world city. Yes, it's world class -- now look at the rest of the country.
- nitwit005 7mo ago
  The people who aren't graduates of those universities also matter.
  - zcw100 7mo ago
    They should but they don't and that's the problem.
- varispeed 7mo ago
  These rankings are meaningless. If you actually studied in the UK, you'd notice a massive change in the last 5 years. Universities do not teach anymore (perhaps with a few exceptions), they are facilitating visas for foreign students without any expectation they'll be learning anything and nobody cares. They pass the exams barely attending any lectures. Everyone is happy, except home students who get massive debt and no actual useful skills.
  - katdork 7mo ago
    It's actually more like the past 10 years? (Certainly was when I was in university back 8 years ago) Maybe longer. But, I like to reference https://marktarver.com/professor.html https://marktarver.com/professor.html on the state of education in the UK.
  - davnicwil 7mo ago
    To push back on this, I actually don't think the real role of a university is to teach, per se. The real role they play is something very different to everything that comes before in education, and a bit closer to everything in the world that will ideally come after: immersion in your field of choice in an environment full of curious peers who are variously a few steps ahead of you, all the way up to world class experts in the field doing research. Parts of your interactions there may include being actively taught relevant things, but the more important goal is to let you explore this environment and the material (yes, with a bit of structure) and in doing so figure out how to learn on your own. You absolutely should be able to get a degree with top marks without attending a single lecture, seminar, lab, whatever, just by reading the material and interacting with those around you less formally, and never being actively 'taught' anything. Many in fact do something approaching this, particularly in the later years of a degree.
    - dsf2 7mo ago
      Not everyone wants this though. "You absolutely should be able to get a degree with top marks without attending a single lecture, seminar, lab, whatever, just by reading the material and interacting with those around you less formally, and never being actively 'taught' anything." So people should pay 9k a year to get a glorified piece of paper, when they essentially have taught themselves?
varispeed 7mo ago
Training is one thing, but wage compression is another. Why study for many years, miss out on life if you can get warehouse job with little training and you won't be meaningfully worse off? You get smaller flat, less organic food and a car few years older than your engineer peer. These talks about productivity always miss the elephant in the room - why people bother to show up in the first place? It's the money. If there is no money, then you can lead horse to water...
- robotswantdata 7mo ago
  Even if you get paid well, the tax cliff at 100k-170k where it makes sense not to work and reject promotions to be eligible for childcare is outrageously stupid. UK is finished
- dsf2 7mo ago
  Ah yes, now we are getting to the heart of the issue. Universities as they exist are not fit for the year 2026. THe year 1990? Yes, absolutely! The world has changed massively since then. It is less attractive to sacrifice years of earnings - which bring much greater experiences than what you get at uni + debt repayments of student loans to finance tuition fee's which have grown sharply from 3k/year to 9k/year and so on.
mmarian 7mo ago
I'm curious which countries you think are best at this?

by mrwh 7mo ago

tim333 7mo ago

Patrick Boyle had I thought a very good youtube on what's gone wrong - not enough investment in productive capital and too much propping up house prices roughly https://youtu.be/T3neJOdknqc https://youtu.be/T3neJOdknqc

zcw100 7mo ago
I really enjoy Patrick Boyle's reports. Really high information content with very little fluff. I love how he sneaks in the deadpan snarky comment every once in a while.

slavoingilizov 7mo ago

The UK has 3 of the top 10 universities in the world: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/latest/world-ranking https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin... It's a talent pool that many big employers want to tap into across a range of skills and industries. Cambridge is the best place to do bio-science and research. That is largely because the UK provides training and opportunities to its young people. "I saw that 20 years go" is one data point that ignores the wider statistics. I'm not sure what else you can back your argument with.

mrwh 7mo ago
That's rather the point: the UK has been great at educating a very narrow sliver of its population, decided at 18 years old. Pointing to Oxbridge as a success story is very much like pointing to London as a world city. Yes, it's world class -- now look at the rest of the country.
nitwit005 7mo ago
The people who aren't graduates of those universities also matter.
- zcw100 7mo ago
  They should but they don't and that's the problem.
varispeed 7mo ago
These rankings are meaningless. If you actually studied in the UK, you'd notice a massive change in the last 5 years. Universities do not teach anymore (perhaps with a few exceptions), they are facilitating visas for foreign students without any expectation they'll be learning anything and nobody cares. They pass the exams barely attending any lectures. Everyone is happy, except home students who get massive debt and no actual useful skills.
- katdork 7mo ago
  It's actually more like the past 10 years? (Certainly was when I was in university back 8 years ago) Maybe longer. But, I like to reference https://marktarver.com/professor.html https://marktarver.com/professor.html on the state of education in the UK.
- davnicwil 7mo ago
  To push back on this, I actually don't think the real role of a university is to teach, per se. The real role they play is something very different to everything that comes before in education, and a bit closer to everything in the world that will ideally come after: immersion in your field of choice in an environment full of curious peers who are variously a few steps ahead of you, all the way up to world class experts in the field doing research. Parts of your interactions there may include being actively taught relevant things, but the more important goal is to let you explore this environment and the material (yes, with a bit of structure) and in doing so figure out how to learn on your own. You absolutely should be able to get a degree with top marks without attending a single lecture, seminar, lab, whatever, just by reading the material and interacting with those around you less formally, and never being actively 'taught' anything. Many in fact do something approaching this, particularly in the later years of a degree.
  - dsf2 7mo ago
    Not everyone wants this though. "You absolutely should be able to get a degree with top marks without attending a single lecture, seminar, lab, whatever, just by reading the material and interacting with those around you less formally, and never being actively 'taught' anything." So people should pay 9k a year to get a glorified piece of paper, when they essentially have taught themselves?

varispeed 7mo ago

Training is one thing, but wage compression is another. Why study for many years, miss out on life if you can get warehouse job with little training and you won't be meaningfully worse off? You get smaller flat, less organic food and a car few years older than your engineer peer. These talks about productivity always miss the elephant in the room - why people bother to show up in the first place? It's the money. If there is no money, then you can lead horse to water...

robotswantdata 7mo ago
Even if you get paid well, the tax cliff at 100k-170k where it makes sense not to work and reject promotions to be eligible for childcare is outrageously stupid. UK is finished
dsf2 7mo ago
Ah yes, now we are getting to the heart of the issue. Universities as they exist are not fit for the year 2026. THe year 1990? Yes, absolutely! The world has changed massively since then. It is less attractive to sacrifice years of earnings - which bring much greater experiences than what you get at uni + debt repayments of student loans to finance tuition fee's which have grown sharply from 3k/year to 9k/year and so on.

mmarian 7mo ago

I'm curious which countries you think are best at this?