3 ms·

Of these all, I prefer the Big Sur design language, which this article calls an “atrocious regression”. Arguing aesthetics is pretty pointless (it’s a decided

by jmull 7mo ago

Of these all, I prefer the Big Sur design language, which this article calls an “atrocious regression”. Arguing aesthetics is pretty pointless (it’s a decided question to me: my taste is great; most others have very poor taste). What bothers me about Tahoe are all the sloppy bits, like things you can no longer click or scroll to. We’re on 26.3.1 now and it looks/works like 1.0.

cachius 7mo ago
> We’re on 26.3.1 I'm still on macOS Sonoma 14 and iOS 18
wtallis 7mo ago
I think it's arrogant to call this merely "arguing aesthetics" unless you can point to real usability studies that say removing color from icons does not impair their legibility and recognizability, or that reducing contrast does not similarly have detrimental effects. What really matters is not how the screenshots look, but how easy it is to use the software in action, with low error rate and without having to spend more than a fraction of a second finding the controls you need.
- jmull 7mo ago
  If you want to claim an objective difference, then you need to be the one to substantiate that. Anyway, we know people read symbols by shape/lines/pattern just fine without color because that's how reading works. > What really matters is not how the screenshots look, but how easy it is to use the software in action, with low error rate and without having to spend more than a fraction of a second finding the controls you need. Indeed. Which is why this article is mostly blowing wind.
  - pseudalopex 7mo ago
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/articles/why-your-users-value-color-icons-more-than-you-may-think/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/articles/why-your-u...
    - jmull 7mo ago
      I think you need to relate this to the case here to establish the objective correctness the previous comment claims, in terms of the screen shots we're looking at. Ridiculous, of course, but that's my point -- we're arguing about feelings not facts. Here, for example, the colors we're discussing are the toolbar icons in the screen shots. A lot of the colors are arbitrary, so don't really impart information. E.g, shapes are characteristically green, tables aren't characteristically yellow, charts aren't characteristically blue. So that's noise, not information. You can only hope that doesn't degrade the UI too much. The yellow sticky note, on the other hand, is characteristic, so does impart information, and the color wheel is perfect. So some good ones and some bad ones. Not clear at all it's good. Now, people who use the software a lot will come to learn arbitrary associations, but, of course, that goes for any arbitrary association.
      - wtallis 7mo ago
        > A lot of the colors are arbitrary, so don't really impart information. The color may not carry any information content by itself, but it still helps distinguish between icons that use different colors.

by jmull 7mo ago

cachius 7mo ago

> We’re on 26.3.1 I'm still on macOS Sonoma 14 and iOS 18

wtallis 7mo ago

I think it's arrogant to call this merely "arguing aesthetics" unless you can point to real usability studies that say removing color from icons does not impair their legibility and recognizability, or that reducing contrast does not similarly have detrimental effects. What really matters is not how the screenshots look, but how easy it is to use the software in action, with low error rate and without having to spend more than a fraction of a second finding the controls you need.

jmull 7mo ago
If you want to claim an objective difference, then you need to be the one to substantiate that. Anyway, we know people read symbols by shape/lines/pattern just fine without color because that's how reading works. > What really matters is not how the screenshots look, but how easy it is to use the software in action, with low error rate and without having to spend more than a fraction of a second finding the controls you need. Indeed. Which is why this article is mostly blowing wind.
- pseudalopex 7mo ago
  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/articles/why-your-users-value-color-icons-more-than-you-may-think/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/articles/why-your-u...
  - jmull 7mo ago
    I think you need to relate this to the case here to establish the objective correctness the previous comment claims, in terms of the screen shots we're looking at. Ridiculous, of course, but that's my point -- we're arguing about feelings not facts. Here, for example, the colors we're discussing are the toolbar icons in the screen shots. A lot of the colors are arbitrary, so don't really impart information. E.g, shapes are characteristically green, tables aren't characteristically yellow, charts aren't characteristically blue. So that's noise, not information. You can only hope that doesn't degrade the UI too much. The yellow sticky note, on the other hand, is characteristic, so does impart information, and the color wheel is perfect. So some good ones and some bad ones. Not clear at all it's good. Now, people who use the software a lot will come to learn arbitrary associations, but, of course, that goes for any arbitrary association.
    - wtallis 7mo ago
      > A lot of the colors are arbitrary, so don't really impart information. The color may not carry any information content by itself, but it still helps distinguish between icons that use different colors.